#510513 - 03/16/04 01:44 PM
Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Keyplayer
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Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
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I'm having a consistant problem with mixing B3 tracks. The organ is constantly printing too far back in the mix.
It's hard enough to get it to sit properly during the mixdown, in that it's either too loud or too soft. I've tried all kinds of compression, panning, and EQ treatments. But so far nothing's working. Anyway, I've gotten in the habit of mixing it a little louder than I think it should sit in the mix to compensate. But when I export the stereo file, it's barely audible.
Also I'm having a similar problem with bass. I can't get it tight enough. It's clear and thumping in the mix. But again, on export, it's too wide and woofy, which ends up masking the rest of the ryhthm track.
Do you guys have any suggestions?
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#510514 - 03/16/04 02:40 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Tedly Nightshade
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Originally posted by Keyplayer:
I'm having a consistant problem with mixing B3 tracks. The organ is constantly printing too far back in the mix.
It's hard enough to get it to sit properly during the mixdown, in that it's either too loud or too soft. I've tried all kinds of compression, panning, and EQ treatments. But so far nothing's working. Anyway, I've gotten in the habit of mixing it a little louder than I think it should sit in the mix to compensate. But when I export the stereo file, it's barely audible.
Also I'm having a similar problem with bass. I can't get it tight enough. It's clear and thumping in the mix. But again, on export, it's too wide and woofy, which ends up masking the rest of the ryhthm track.
Do you guys have any suggestions?
_________________________
A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#510515 - 03/16/04 03:15 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Keyplayer
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Registered: 11/19/01
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Loc: Maryland, USA
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Originally posted by Ted Nightshade:
Keyplayer: Okay,
I'm tracking through a DA7 desk to Nuendo 1.6.2 (on XP-Pro O.S.). The B-3 is a patch from my Roland XV-5080.
The bass is my favorite patch from my Korg X5DR which is an upright bass. It's very fat. That's the problem. It's spreading all over the mix, even with a steep rolloff at 45hz. I don't want to compress it too much because I want to keep the dynamics and "life" I spent hours programming.
The drums and brass (trumpet, sax and trombone)are live. The song in question is an Old School 70's type funk song with clavinet and wah wah guitar behind a lead and background vocal. But I use the B-3 patch on lots of other songs and I always have the same problem.
Does this help?
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#510516 - 03/16/04 04:40 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Philter
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Registered: 09/19/01
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Loc: North New Jersey, USA
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I would try eq'ing the B3 and placing it where you want it- start with a high pass filter which should allow you to turn it up louder without clouding up your mix- maybe you have a tube preamp that you could run it through and get it more "in-your-face" or present, even a little edgy?
The bass sounds like it's not focused in the right place. Try losing a little with a low shelf from 70 down, and adding a bit of a bump in the 70-100 range.
Oh, and if the bass player was live, you would still probably compress his track some...
My 2¢...
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#510517 - 03/16/04 08:08 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Tedly Nightshade
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Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
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Sounds like the issue is getting the direct tones to mix with the live instruments. That is a challenge. I've done well using one of the real nice DI's- a Manley, but there are several other very good ones that might suit you better. Hard to tell from here. It can work really nicely- always seems like a minor miracle when the direct tones and the mic'ed stuff play nice together.
I think it can be a dimension issue- you need to get the direct keys patches to have a sense of space, one way or the other.
Unless I'm assuming they are direct, and in fact they have been put through speakers and mic'ed up! If not, you might give that a try.
_________________________
A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#510518 - 03/16/04 10:57 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
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Could be innacuracy with your room or monitors. Have you tuned your control room? What are you using for monitoring?
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#510519 - 03/17/04 11:16 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Keyplayer
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Loc: Maryland, USA
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Okay, here's where we are so far on this. First off, THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR HELP. It was most appreciated.
What I ended up doing was:
1)I panned the organ a little further to the right than originally placed.
2)I beefed the sound up by inserting a Transient Designer type plug (Dominion).
3) I rolled off evrything below 750hz and raised gradually after 4.2 thru 12K about 4db.
The organ sounds awful soloed. But it sounds just fine in the mix and I only have to raise the volume 2db when it's playing its lowest notes to keep it present now.
I tightened the bass up some more with compression and a higher rolloff. Then I cloned the original track and used it to re-amp for a better bass cabinet effect. That worked great. Now the bass cuts right down the center without bleeding "woof" all over the mid-range.
I didn't mention it in the original post but I was having a helluva time getting the drums to punch through with the lead vocal.
It's an Old School 70's style funk song and I'm TRYING to make it sound like a band jamming in a kitchen/dining room. Complete instrumentation is as follows.
Lead & Background Vocals
LIVE DRUMS
LIVE CLAVINET
Wah Wah Guitar Patch from the 5080
B-3 patch from the 5080
Bass patch from the Korg X5DR doing a great electric bass imitation
LIVE HORNS (Trumpet & Sax with a MIDI Trombone - They work very well together)
I'd rather go all live. But there's no budget for it. So I'm working "Slight Of Hand" as best I can.
Anyway, I finally got the drums to punch through by bussing them to 2 stereo busses in my DA7. But now I've got a latency issue to track down that's noticeably out with the bass track by a couple of ms.
So how do I keep this punch and still get the drums to sound open. They sound kind of squashed right now and I'm NOT using a lot compression on them.
I'll have to let you know how the print/export turns out later. Right now I'm trying to fix this mix.
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#510520 - 03/18/04 12:26 PM
Re: Mixing problem with Bass & B-3
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Keyplayer
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Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Maryland, USA
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Mystery solved. The culprit is the STEREO SPREAD PLUG-IN.
I had this same thing happen a couple of years ago. Back then I'd run an entire mix through the plug-in to get a wider image. It sounded fine in the project. But when I exported it, the balances were all over the place! I mean NOTHING WAS AS IT PLAYED IN THE PROJECT! Drum Kit went left but the Hi Hat went right (balance completely off!), the Bass was one big woof of mud, Lead vocal went into an echo chamber, you get the idea. It was a total mess!
Someone asked if I had that plug-in turned on during that trouble shooting session and said they'd had a similar experience. I turned it off and "voila", it played just fine.
This time I only had the stereo spread on the organ track. But that apparently was enough to make that "Sonic Hole" I referred to earlier. I turned it off and this export played just like the 24/48K project (and yes Fredo, I had the automation and FX selected during export. It's ver. 1.6.2).
The balance of the mix is fine now. The project performance sounds understandably better. So I may try printing externally via the analog ports to see if I can save any more depth before I print it as a 16/44K master.
Thanks again.
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