#433554 - 10/31/03 11:00 AM
normalize
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vibes
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Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 79
Loc: USA
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Hi all..Hi Roger..
Question..thoughts welcome..
Basically I'm a musician starting to get more projects where I have to compile various tracks I produced in very different genres for a music publisher.
I am somewhat confuysed in terms of normal(is there any such thing really)
but seriously need to understand how I should finish and /or compile my tracks.
Here is my basic set up..perhaps some of you can shed some light on a "better way"..thanks..
Here is my way of working..
Record midi and audio into digital performer adn or logic on mac..use digital outs from sound card to finalizer to seperate cd burner..the actual cd is my master
When I need to move the track anywhere I take the cd audio and place in file for uploading to the publisher
Individual tracks in like genres sound amazing and not really a problem with levels..
Now I am noticing level issues lets say with a jazz trio acoustic track next to a rap track next to a pop track next to a legit classical thing..
A friend mentioned that I need some other process to get this right..meaning levels of end product even..
I thought the finalizer was doing this for me with max volume without distortion yet my ears(and everyone elses) tell me differently!
If there is a program solution to compile the music and normalize here thats cool..just worried that by normalizing I am losing the dynamic range and beauty especially on the acoustic stuff..not paranoid guess a good problem to have as my ears seem bigger now..
interested in your collective thought
thanks with regards
vibes
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#433555 - 10/31/03 02:02 PM
Re: normalize
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Loco
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Registered: 08/11/00
Posts: 1242
Loc: Miami Beach,FL,UNITED STATES
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That's what mastering do. Make it even. However, puttin gon the same CD pop rap and Jazz make it really hard without a compromise. You either loose level on the pop and rap tracks, or you loose dynamics on the Jazz one. You can attempt a mastering sesson with DP or Logic having all the tracks on the same sesson and being able to compare the final result you want to achieve. a combination of compression, eq, multiband compression and limiting is needed, along with some time and experience. When you're satisfied with the results (you may not be happy, but satisfied), bounce to disk and burn your CD.
_________________________
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
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#433556 - 10/31/03 03:01 PM
Re: normalize
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marsmgr1
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Registered: 08/24/03
Posts: 200
Loc: Jackson, MS
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Get the mixes "right" on all the different tunes...If you can't get them to all be at approximately the same level then use "normalizing"...Know in advance that once you get into the "mastering" stage you're gonna be dealing with different settings for each song but it can be done with a lotta patience and "trial and error"...
PM or Email me if you need some assistance!
_________________________
Chris - "Been there, Done that"
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#433557 - 10/31/03 03:37 PM
Re: normalize
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kylen
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/06/03
Posts: 3988
Loc: Southern WV, USA
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...I have to compile various tracks I produced in very different genres for a music publisher.
You either loose level on the pop and rap tracks, or you loose dynamics on the Jazz one.
You'll just have to set some standards and establish where you want 'loud' to be regardless of genre. Maybe it's -15dBfs rms, maybe it's -12dBfs rms, maybe -18dBfs rms.
I guess I'd experiment by using the most dynamic jazz piece as your standard. Compare your piece to a commercial jazz piece of similiar instrumentation and good sounding dynamics and note its rms level. Adjust the rms 'loudness' of your jazz piece to that rms (if you want) - use your finalizer with a very transparent limiter setting if you get digital 'overs'.
Once you've established your standard adjust everything else you distribute to that. Sit at your listening position and listening at 85-90dB SPL adjust levels to your standard piece. You'll be dropping the levels (and rms) of most hip hop and rock stuff - and raising levels of quieter stuff.
Sometimes I'll do this using MAGIX (Windows) Cleaning Lab, or CD Architect (Sony Wndows) and use the auto-normalize button to get a course loudness adjustment for the project. Then fine tune it by hand listening and raising or lowering volume handles where needed.
Long story short - make a decision on your loudness level (using rms) for this cumulative project over time with your publisher.
Sounds fun ! 
kylen
PS I forgot to mention - Of course in any new compilation I am normalizing, re-balancing, and setting levels of safety copies of mixes archived at 24bits undithered. Depending on the distribution media then the very last thing is the dither if there is a bit depth reduction to go to CD for example.
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#433558 - 10/31/03 06:24 PM
Re: normalize
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Loopy C
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Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 702
Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
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If I may say, the term normalize as used to refer to a computer process SHOULD NOT BE USED. The normalize function simply scans the entire file and sets THE HIGHEST PEAK in the whole file to the specified amount. This has little to do with loudness, which is a function of *average* level and other factors. The term was once used by mastering engineers in reference to the process of LISTENING to each track IN CONTEXT and adjusting the volume using their ears. Most ME's have abandoned this definition as it leads to confusion with that of the algorithm in computers and other "finalizing" boxes.
There are many ways to make a file *sound* loud, these should be used as appropriate to the material, there is no one rule. Combined together and in context is the best way to adjust a projects song levels, going back to the originals as needed to make these adjustments pertaining to RMS and musical density. The final process is then picking the loudest song (again as heard and not based on meters) as your benchmark, adjusting the rest as appropriate to goal of overall sequence. As mentioned a program like CD Architect is handy for final assembly. When working on my own material I will build an EDL early on of my rough mixes so that I can hold a image in my mind of how the material is sitting in context as I make final mix decisions (especially any mix buss processing). I usually have a limiter set to -1db to set my peak maximum for the mix buss, adjusting so that it hardly is working.
Finally, the repeated processing of a file using normalization and other file based operations WILL degrade the sound quality. Every process generates numbers larger than the file bit size, each time these numbers are rounded you are losing something you cannot get back. Keep this in mind as you plan your processing steps.
_________________________
Chris R. Gibson aka Loopy C Micworks Ken Tamplin Mastering
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#433559 - 11/01/03 09:35 PM
Re: normalize
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vibes
Senior Member
Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 79
Loc: USA
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Thanks for the thoughts..very helpful
regards
vibes
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