#433491 - 10/27/03 02:26 PM
Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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RockNRoll
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Registered: 09/30/01
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Hi there,
Here's a general question just to see how other people approach the recording process or principle when it comes to doing vocals. Many things have become possible and simplified with the advent of digital recording, particularly with editing thus making such process as copying and pasting almost as easy as working a word processor.
I sometimes make rough demos for a publishing company, and copying and pasting parts such as choruses saves a lot of time, plus since it's just a rough, it doesn't really matter as long as the general idea is there.........But when it comes to recording a final product intended for commercial use, what are some of the approaches? Despite the tools, do popular bands and artists still record all their vocal parts live for final recordings?
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#433492 - 10/27/03 02:48 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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bond1
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I personally like it when the chorus is sung slightly different each time. The trend right now though seems to be cutting and pasting choruses and background vocals.
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#433493 - 10/28/03 12:15 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Uh Clem
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Cutting and pasting should be a calculated effect the same as any other arrangement decision. Even if not obvious, there is no arguing the subliminal effects of repetition - the brain picks up on things like that so you should do it for a good reason or not.
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#433494 - 10/28/03 10:22 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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marsmgr1
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Cutting & Pasting is nothing new...Not just for vocals but for any element of "commercial" recordings...Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top has been doing it on their records since the mid-80's; Drums, Bass, Guitar & Vocals; Anything that had the right "groove" to make the song sound like he wanted it to sound...
Bottom line, if it works with the song and the "vibe" is there then it's acceptable...The artist & producer should, at the end, know if it's right...(That is, of course, before the label exec approves it! :rolleyes: )
BTW, cut & paste (on analog tape) was also used back in the 50's and 60's...Even at the "mastering" stage in some cases...However, that was actually "copy & paste" in every sense of the words...There were no "digital" razor blades or splicing blocks...
Anyway, to quote GM from a totally unrelated thread in his forum..."Whatever blows your skirt up!" 
Remember, there are *NO* "rules"...Experiment to your heart's content...That's how our industry has evolved!
_________________________
Chris - "Been there, Done that"
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#433495 - 10/28/03 10:52 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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where02190
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Registered: 11/06/01
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typically I'll get the vocalist to do several passes of the tune, until we get what I call the working track, it captures the vibe fo the tune best, and has few mistakes. we then go through the tune line by line and section by section, fixing or changing what needs to be. I will sometimes cut/paster sections that we purposely want to be exactly the same, sometime repetition is part of the formula, but for the most part I avoid it.
One major problem can be timing. If the track was not done ot a click, ti can be impossible for the vocals to line up properly, and even if it was, sometimes the human touch just doesn't fit.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
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#433496 - 10/28/03 11:21 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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Originally posted by RockNRoll:
Hi there,
copying and pasting parts such as choruses saves a lot of time,
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#433497 - 10/28/03 01:10 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Yuri T.
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I go for punch ins rather than cut n' paste.
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#433498 - 10/28/03 02:34 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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marsmgr1
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Registered: 08/24/03
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Originally posted by Yuri T.:
I go for punch ins rather than cut n' paste.
Having said that, I should emphasize that my analog (60's & beyond) background tends to make me strive for the "real thing" BUT I have done C&P or triggering samples to make things work with the song... 
_________________________
Chris - "Been there, Done that"
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#433499 - 10/28/03 06:09 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Loco
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com:
No way in the world does editing take less time than having them sing the part again. We're talking about pop songs, right? Three minutes or so? It is far quicker to get it right in recording than to spend a lot of time mousing around.
Just copy - paste. Then mute things here and there. Do differents adlibs. But the trick to a successful hook is to make it somewhat consistant from time to time.
_________________________
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
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#433500 - 10/28/03 06:30 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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EXAGON
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I remember when the group "Myster Myster" used a repeated sampled chorus "Don't think about it".
I was amazed ('80).
It sounded so strange and new.
In the '80 everything that had a computer "smell" was trendy (squared cars, because that was the best Cray computers could do, sampled instruments, simple 3D video shapes and transitions, ...)
Today this trend is over.
Today we have the ability to make full electro music to full acoustical recordings, it's up to you.
But remember this:
THE HUMAN BRAIN IS ABLE TO CATCH A SINGLE REPETITION IN A 2 HOURS PROGRAM be it a single film shot or a single audio sample.
So, unless you WANT it, avoid any kind of repeated samples.
_________________________
Features Are Not An Opinion. (John Hope, 2003) http://johnhope.blogspot.com/ Addresse: UIPLPPICDSS Ufficio Internazionale Per La Presa Per Il Culo Dei Sbruffoni Statunitensi Att. Tua Sorella Codice Mavapigliatelindomo Pirla Chi Legge
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#433501 - 10/29/03 12:48 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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RockNRoll
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com: Originally posted by RockNRoll:
Hi there,
copying and pasting parts such as choruses saves a lot of time,
Bill
I guess we all have our on approach in this situation. Editing is pretty fast and especially if the essence of a part was well captured in a previous chorus passage, repeating this passage via a copy and paste would certainly save a lot more time rather than having to possibly go through several passes on the other chorus parts in an attempt to 're-invent the wheel' with yet another great live take. Simple editing procedures such as copying and pasting is pretty fast especially in the hands of those that are well accostomed to their software and keyboard shortcuts. Whatever works for anyone I guess. Peace.
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#433502 - 10/29/03 12:48 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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RockNRoll
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Originally posted by bpark@prorec.com: Originally posted by RockNRoll:
Hi there,
copying and pasting parts such as choruses saves a lot of time,
Bill
I guess we all have our on approach in this situation. Editing is pretty fast and especially if the essence of a part was well captured in a previous chorus passage, repeating this passage via a copy and paste would certainly save a lot more time rather than having to possibly go through several passes on the other chorus parts in an attempt to 're-invent the wheel' with yet another great live take. Simple editing procedures such as copying and pasting is pretty fast especially in the hands of those that are well accostomed to their software and keyboard shortcuts. Whatever works for anyone I guess. Peace.
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#433503 - 10/29/03 09:55 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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wireline
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Registered: 10/08/02
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Also depends on what the client wants to do...some say "cut-n-paste," others say "lets do it again."
I prefer the latter...
_________________________
So What ARE We Gonna Do With 8 Tracks...Fire the Arranger?
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#433504 - 10/29/03 11:53 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Yuri T.
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Yup, C & P is faster. To each thier own. It's also faster to buy a burger at McDonald's than fire up a grill and make your own. Which one tastes better though?
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#433505 - 10/29/03 02:17 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Loco
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Registered: 08/11/00
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Originally posted by Yuri T.:
Yup, C & P is faster. To each thier own. It's also faster to buy a burger at McDonald's than fire up a grill and make your own. Which one tastes better though?
_________________________
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
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#433506 - 10/29/03 04:06 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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Yuri T.
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Originally posted by Loco:
It depends on how good you are with your grill.
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#433507 - 10/31/03 03:37 AM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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zele
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Registered: 01/12/01
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Faster with live takes --punch in's....
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#433508 - 11/13/03 10:01 PM
Re: Recording vocals entirely live or copy and paste repeated chorus parts?
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chrisaiken
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Either way, depends what you want.But I think one big thing that's not being mention here is that many times those copied chorus vocals also have a big stack of bg's with them.So in that respect it is definitley way faster and less work than singing all the parts again.
Cheers,
Chris
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