#432844 - 10/02/03 09:31 AM
level for radio
|
windman
Senior Member
Registered: 12/05/01
Posts: 92
Loc: CANADA
|
Offline
|
|
I just put a song on the radio and in my car and at home it sounded loud ...but on the radio it wasn't....At what level should I put the mastering ?Does anybody can give me a hint ?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432845 - 10/02/03 10:42 AM
Re: level for radio
|
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
10k Club
Registered: 05/23/00
Posts: 11866
Loc: NY Hudson Valley, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Well...looks like you are dealing with three different playback devices....yes?
You would need to calibrate all playback devices so that they are the same before you compare the output levels.
If your home stereo plays the CD louder than your car system...
...just adjust the output to taste! 
If you are saying something different...could you rephrase your question please.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432846 - 10/02/03 11:32 AM
Re: level for radio
|
skiboy
Senior Member
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 37
Loc: The Pole
|
|
Offline
|
|
When you send a DAT or a CD to a radio station - they play it into their cart/broadcast server DD. If the station's 0 VU = 18/12 dBFS and your programme is peaking at eg. -1dBFS.....they will either transfer analogue and trim to taste or they will stuff your signal into the cart no questions asked
BUT
then your -1dbFS music hits the station's AGC (ORBAN in Europe most likely) on its way to the transmitter...and gets mangled to the point of being completely smothered.
OR
the radio editor, just to teach somebody a lesson, decides to trim off too much level...
OR
your song has so many clipped samples - see how the AGC handles THAT....
OR
yor mix has phase problems plus some DC offset - very bad
OR
some stations will take any old mp3 and use it no problem, a junor tech (Levels, wot? dBFS ? No, I never had that) will be responsible for transferring it to the stations cart/broadcast server
Google over to Robert Orban's white papers on radio AutomaticGainControls and see what happens to your song in them thar box BEFORE it hits the airwaves.
IMPORTANT:
Talk to your friendly local radio technician, get to know your client station's level rules, their signal chain. Almost every station has their own ...
Sometimes the only way to go is to have different radio, tv and hifi mixes of your song.
Of course, my environment is way behind yours but the reference rules are the same.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432847 - 10/02/03 12:03 PM
Re: level for radio
|
where02190
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
radio broadcasdt compresses the hell out of their analog signal before going to the RF transmitter. If you keep your level on the low side, and dynamicly limit a bit more than you'd like, your on air levels will be fairly decent, as the lower level will keep the compressors from smashing too much, and since you've already smashed it, it will not pump the radio comps with dynamic peaks and valleys, but remain fairly consistanly squashed.
I've used this tenique for years doing commercials for radio, and it seems to work well. YMMV.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432848 - 10/04/03 11:22 PM
Re: level for radio
|
Soundscape Studios.
Gold Member
Registered: 08/03/00
Posts: 758
Loc: Spring Valley, NY
|
|
Offline
|
|
Originally posted by where02190:
radio broadcasdt compresses the hell out of their analog signal before going to the RF transmitter. If you keep your level on the low side, and dynamicly limit a bit more than you'd like, your on air levels will be fairly decent, as the lower level will keep the compressors from smashing too much, and since you've already smashed it, it will not pump the radio comps with dynamic peaks and valleys, but remain fairly consistanly squashed.
I've used this tenique for years doing commercials for radio, and it seems to work well. YMMV.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432849 - 10/05/03 09:45 PM
Re: level for radio
|
where02190
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
That's exactly what I'm saying. By making yoru mixes really hot, the radio limiters are smashing them even more. drop your level to -12dbfs, and you''lll allow some dynamics to escape the brickwall limiters.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432850 - 10/06/03 05:00 AM
Re: level for radio
|
patrox247
Senior Member
Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 148
Loc: Orange County California
|
|
Offline
|
|
For radio play often average volume is a more desireable goal than peak volume. Things are way too loud anyways right? You're just gonna send the radio stations limiters into panic mode and we all know how that story ends. Try using gentle compression rather than drastic limiting to increase your mix a few db's. You might not win the volume war, but your fidelity will thank you.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432851 - 10/06/03 02:23 PM
Re: level for radio
|
area51recording
Senior Member
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Newburgh,IN
|
|
Offline
|
|
So what would be a good RMS level for stuff that's going to be broadcast? When I send stuff out of my place, like rough mixes for clients (ie. not mastered final versions)I usually give them something like -12 to -14 db RMS. This is mostly so when they play it at home they don't have to crank the volume and then watch their speakers melt when they play a commercial CD and forget to turn it down, but this doesn't take into account radio play. Would something like this level be in the ballpark for radio stuff or no?
Bob Green
Area 51 Recording Studio
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432852 - 10/06/03 06:21 PM
Re: level for radio
|
where02190
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
drop your level to -12dbfs, and you''lll allow some dynamics to escape the brickwall limiters.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432853 - 10/06/03 07:34 PM
Re: level for radio
|
area51recording
Senior Member
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Newburgh,IN
|
|
Offline
|
|
So, Where, you mean drop the level that the audio peaks at to -12dbfs? Sounds like a good call but I was also interested in what would be a good peak to average level for the audio as well.
Bob Green
Area 51 Recording Studio
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432854 - 10/07/03 11:07 AM
Re: level for radio
|
where02190
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/06/01
Posts: 5402
Loc: Weymouth, Ma. USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Average level to -12dbfs, compress to minimize peaks.
_________________________
Hope this is helpful. NP Recording Studios Analog approach to digital recording.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432855 - 10/07/03 03:33 PM
Re: level for radio
|
area51recording
Senior Member
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 284
Loc: Newburgh,IN
|
|
Offline
|
|
Ahhhh! Cool. Thanks!
Bob Green
Area 51 Recording Studio
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432856 - 10/10/03 12:53 PM
Re: level for radio
|
Roger LJ
Member
Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 13
Loc: Norway
|
|
Offline
|
|
Where I come from The radio limiters kick in at -6dbFS. So leaving the rms levels clear of this point is a must.(most music sound like shit at that point anyways...)
Find out at what level the limiters kick in at your neck of the woods and master with that in mind.
_________________________
I don't have enough gear to do what I want, too much to say that I can't do it..
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#432857 - 10/11/03 03:00 PM
Re: level for radio
|
Bob Olhsson
Senior Member
Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 426
Loc: Nashville,TN, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
There are two other factors. Broadcast processors reduce the overall level when there are excessive high frequencies such as from clipping and they use phase rotators to maximize transmitter modulation which will radically increase distortion levels when they encounter any clipping.
The loudest stuff on the air will generally be the LEAST processed. Getting music past a programming meeting often requires absurdly high levels in the meeting room but once it passes that hurdle, unprocessed audio is what ironically ends up in the best competitive position.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
