#432642 - 09/25/03 06:10 PM
What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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Registered: 08/26/03
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Hi Roger -
long time! - I hope you are well.
what do you think of this:
http://www.vansevers.com
curious to know your thoughts!
best always
Ed Mann
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Ed Mann
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#432643 - 09/26/03 08:55 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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$150.00 IEC power cables? :rolleyes:
IMO, it's snake oil.
Oh, and don't hold your breath waiting for a reply from RN. He hasn't been seen around theswe parts in ages.
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#432644 - 09/27/03 01:33 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Loopy C
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Loc: Valyermo,CA,UNITED STATES
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The same Ed Mann as Frank Zappa's band and CMP albums? Just today was thoroughly enjoying "Get Up" and was going to chase it down with some "Perfect World". Anyway, what a coincidence if so.
Roger popped up a few weeks ago on George's site to answer a sample rate question then went back into "hiding" (meaning he has a life). 
There was a lively discussion of the claims of hi-end power cords over on 3D Audio's forum, a test was suggested but I don't know if it will happen. It seems people who have not tried them think it's bunk (funny, the term "Snake Oil" is the one that always comes up) and the ones who have tried them swear they hear a difference. In other words, no consensus I have seen on the subject.
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Chris R. Gibson aka Loopy C Micworks Ken Tamplin Mastering
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#432645 - 09/28/03 03:54 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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Originally posted by Loopy C:
The same Ed Mann as Frank Zappa's band and CMP albums? Just today was thoroughly enjoying "Get Up" and was going to chase it down with some "Perfect World". Anyway, what a coincidence if so.
Have not seen Roger in years but I remember that when I did he was always happy to give advice and field questions. A very nice guy with a great edge. I do not fault him for not posting here - he would get swamped!
I posted the vansevers thing as serious comedy - but I also would not be the one to say that it isn't all true. But in a way it doesn't matter = who could possibly afford or be willing to invest their studio this way just for AC? Not me.
thanks for your kind words and best regards
Ed
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Ed Mann
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#432646 - 09/28/03 10:30 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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In all fairness to Mr. Vans Evers - I just rec'd this reply from him:
Ed,
If you use a "balanced" approach, you can get better sound. That is, a mix
of approaches. The Equitech is good as far as it goes. However, it isn't a
magic bullet. I usually advise using one or more of my conditioners in
conjunction with a balanced power conditioner if that is what the client
already owns. That way you save some money and still improve your set up.
I recommend that you do only what is necessary to move your system to the
next level sonically. That is, you don't have to redo your whole system to
improve your sound. You may want to at some point, but that will be after
you have some experience with my products.
I like cymbals to sound like cymbals, not a gated white noise generator. I
like vocals to sound natural, without all the extras that seem to coat them
these days. However, you may feel differently. If you are getting the exact
sound you want you may not need to change anything. If you want smoother
highs, or warmer mids, or more detail in your mix, you will have specific
tonal needs. What I have done is to create a methodology to help you get the
tonality you want. I make products with a known sound (every product has
one, even the one that say they don't). If you want more of "X" then you
will need product ___ to move the overall sound in that direction. Until you
have things set up, you won't know which direction you would like your
system's tonality to go.
I have over a dozen of the musicians in our area orchestra (The Florida
Orchestra) using my resonators--from strings to woodwinds and brass. I can
make any instrument sound better--studios too. I use acoustic, power, and
signal path techniques, all with their roots in the mechanical realm.
Take care,
Mike Vans Evers
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Ed Mann
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#432647 - 09/29/03 12:32 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Katiedawg
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Registered: 02/24/01
Posts: 63
Loc: Birmingham,AL,UNITED STATES
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Uh...I don't see any possible way this can make any difference.
Your power is fed through ALUMINUM feeders from the generation plant, goes through all kinds of transformers, and is fed to your studio on ALUMINUM 240 volt lines from the street. It goes through inductive breakers in the panel (can anyone say "phase shift?"), then out 12 or 14 or 16 (depending on the circuit supply rating) AWG copper lines in the walls to your control room and studios.
So, Mr. "I can hear the difference in these cables," please explain how going through a few feet of these esoteric supply mains can change everything that happens for miles and miles before it gets to them.
Edited to remove a more forceful opening...trying to be more civil.
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#432648 - 09/29/03 02:48 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Loopy C
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I beleive the above was sent to Ed who in fairness to all sides has posted it here. I think if you really wanted an explanation you would have to correspond with him directly. I'm guessing now, did your edited intro refer to any sex acts upon non-living animals? 
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Chris R. Gibson aka Loopy C Micworks Ken Tamplin Mastering
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#432649 - 09/29/03 03:03 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Katiedawg
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Registered: 02/24/01
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Hahahaha! No, not this time. It was still uncalled for, though.
This just isn't possible. A three foot piece of copper wire, I don't care how nice it is, can't take away all the unholy things that have allegedly happened upstream.
It's the old "the chain is only as strong as it's weakest link" thing. A magic three foot piece of esoteric cable fixes everything? And you're plugging it into a Home Depot generic wall socket? Fed with from the breaker panel with contractor-grade THHN wire? And you're using what for a technical ground? You mean you didn't drive a six foot copper rod in the ground when the studio was built? And this cable magically fixes all that?
I suppose that it also "fixes" all the wiring on the other side of it as well. You know...where the wiring of the component in question comes off of the internal socket. Guess what? It usually goes into the power supply section with 20 gauge stranded wire. On top of that, it also has to go through a nasty, noisy, resistive thing called a "switch," and another nasty thing called a "fuse." Guess what? No copper! And this is all before the 120 is knocked down to lower voltage, rectified, filtered and regulated.
C'mon...what a load.
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#432650 - 09/29/03 11:47 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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Registered: 08/26/03
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Yes- please do not be confused by my posting this stuff. I am not saying that magic AC cables exist - I am just posting it for your amusement. Although if someone were to come forth and present credible evidence - then so be it. The replies to this post have been interesting and informative - and perhaps useful to someone down the line who reads the thread before spending kilobucks on magical leads.
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Ed Mann
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#432651 - 09/30/03 12:08 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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OK Folks - here is the latest from Mike Vans Evers - in response to my question about how "that magic last couple feet of AC cable" can make a difference given the standard AC materials that lead to the Home Depot socket" etc:
(quote Mike Vans Evers):
If your hypothesis really doesn't make sense, then maybe the hypothesis is wrong! The last few feet of power conduit (cords) only make sense if they are mechanical filters, not so much electrical ones. All electronics are microphonic--solid state too! Use a distortion analyzer and look at the
output on a scope. Thwack on a wire or a transistor and see the trace
change...
Cords and cables are mechanical energy conduits directly coupled to microphonic electronics. The mechanical properties of that conduit become
filters that shape the energy spectrum of the vibrations entering that piece of electronics. This is a big reason why one cable sounds different than another...power, signal, everything.
Yes, studios have lots of power cords. You probably won't have to change them all out. Just enough to improve the overall sound.
I call what I do Retro-Tech. We've jumped right over the mechanical side of things because we could do so much with the electronic side, often to our detriment.
We listen to a SYSTEM!! Not one component. The room and ever thing in it is part of that system--unfortunately. Power is shared--6-9 houses on one pole pig (street power trans ).
Transformers reflect the impedance of one side to the other--they don't isolate as much as people think (OK, at DC they do).
Take care,
Mike
--------
Now - me again: I will admit that I still can't quite make sense of it - but I am also a musician and composer first and I am in no way educated as an electrical engineer. That is why I post this stuff - not to trash Mike Vans Evers nor to promote his ideas - but to get a debate going on the subject assumming that somewhere in here there is something to learn.
thanks
Ed
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Ed Mann
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#432652 - 09/30/03 05:13 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Loopy C
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Though I see a hint of an explanation that might have some merit theoritically he has done a lot of dancing around the subject. If there is a "sound" reason this mechanical filter idea has audible affect then in my opinion he has missed an oppurtunity to explain how his products translates it to real world application. Having said that there is enough of an idea here to stimulate my curiousity, I think I will persue a little research on the subject. Verbosity just doesn't seem the proper way to handle something that he must know is questionable by most reasonable people. 
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Chris R. Gibson aka Loopy C Micworks Ken Tamplin Mastering
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#432653 - 09/30/03 09:38 PM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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Bill Mueller
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Registered: 06/22/03
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"So, Mr. "I can hear the difference in these cables," please explain how going through a few feet of these esoteric supply mains can change everything that happens for miles and miles before it gets to them.
Edited to remove a more forceful opening...trying to be more civil.
[ 09-28-2003, 09:38 PM: Message edited by: Katiedawg ]"
--------------------
If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?
I LOVE this postscript! I play paintball.
Katiedawg if you are ever in DC, I owe you a dinner. What he said.
Bill
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#432654 - 10/01/03 11:49 AM
Re: What do you think of this Roger?
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edmann
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Any questions can be directed to Mike Vans Evers at:
http://www.vansevers.com
be nice - whether you believe him or not he seems like a nice - and perhaps eccentric- fellow. And maybe he is on to something useful - or not - I have no idea.
Ed
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