#390657 - 01/03/00 05:24 PM
May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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David Kempton
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Registered: 01/03/00
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Loc: Monterey, CA
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Question for Roger, please:
My current rig contains a Spirit Digital 328 console, two ADATs and a MOTU 2408 - the idea being to record to ADAT, transfer into my computer (Mac G3) for editing/mixing/CD burning.
In order to eliminate optical repatching, I've connected the TOSLink cables in a 'circle of light', Digital 328 outs to ADAT ins, ADAT outs to 2408 ins, 2408 outs to Digital 328 ins. (The Spirit Aux TOSLink goes to the third 2408 ADAT in.) It all syncs up to an MOTU AV at 44.1.
It all works great, except every time I press play or record from stop, i get a short burst of digital clicks while the various pieces attept to lock up. I can't determine if this is from the round-robin optical connections or from the MOTU AV-to-console, console-to-240 PCI card clock connection.
Any ideas about how to solve this? Rolling punches are not affected, but standing starts with these artifacts are an irritant, especially if the client is wearing phones...
Thanks.
David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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#390658 - 01/03/00 05:51 PM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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Roger Nichols
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Registered: 12/13/99
Posts: 1249
Loc: Miami, Florida
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David
Which box is the master? Is the onsole the master with the ADAT set to external clock? Is the MOTU the master...
The console should be the master, and you should run a BNC cable from the Word Clock out of the console to the MOTU word sync in. The ADATs would then get sync through the 9 pin connections from the MOTU to the ADAT. This should work, but let me know what the master is.
Sometimes with a bunch of digital boxes in a loop you can get glitches even with the right master. The problem here is that the ADATs take time to get going when you hit play or record. It doesn't take much slop before bits fail to line up and clicks start happening.
If the console is the master and everything else is set to slave, then try making the MOTU box the master and use word clock out of the MOTU to slave the console and ADATs.
Send me more info and I will try to help further
Roger
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#390659 - 01/04/00 03:11 PM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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David Kempton
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Currently the MOTU AV is the clock master and the timecode master. I have had issues with timecode slop when using an original MTP and letting the console be the boss, so I got the AV to resolve the problem.
I'll try your way and let you know.
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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#390660 - 01/05/00 01:19 AM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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Roger Nichols
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One more thought...
There was a problem a couple of years ago with the MOTU AV unit firmware, When you start playing, the MOTU would start instantly while the ADATs had to speed up slowly (phisical piece of equipment that has mass and can't start instantly). MOTU sent out a new firmware version that would make the MOTU ramp up to speed the same as the ADAT player. This solved lots of problems where the MOTU would jump ahead and then the ADATs would go out of lock to catch up. I am not sure of the firmware revision, a call to MOTU or maybe I can find it around here in the next day or so.
Roger
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#390661 - 01/05/00 10:45 PM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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David Kempton
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Thanks for the feedback. My MTPAV version is 2.0.0 and I'm running the latest FreeMIDI and Clockworks from the MOTU site.
Tried connecting as you suggested with the console as the master - seemed to be a little worse (took a litte longer to settle down) so I reconnected as original, with the AV as the clockmaster AND the timecode master.
I have thought about getting an all optical Z-sys patchbay, but thats another $1000, with no guarantee that the problem would be solved...
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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The Soundsmith
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#390662 - 01/14/00 12:03 AM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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Roger Nichols
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David
I checked with Z-Systems. All of their optical routers will route ADAT signals! It routes all eight channels at once. They have a new box that will split up the ADAT signals into stereo pairs that can be sent out stereo Toslink outputs.
Remember, there are 8 channels of data in the ADAT lite pipe, and the data rate is therefore about 5 times as high as the SP/DIF requirements.
As far as the clocking... Let me know the software revision (of your 2408) and I am still trying to figure out your problem.
Are you connecting a word clock cable from the MOTU to your console and ADATs? I think this is a good idea, and make sure that your console and ADATs are set to sync to WORD CLOCK and not ADAT input or DIGITAL input
Roger Nichols
[This message has been edited by Roger Nichols (edited 01-14-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Roger Nichols (edited 01-22-2000).]
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#390663 - 01/16/00 12:28 AM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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David Kempton
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Roger, thanks for the reply.
I had previously emailed Z-sys withthat exact question, and was told it was exactly what I need. My MOTU advice says this still won't alleviate the problem (see below) but at least it will act as a switching matrix for the TOSlink stuff.
Thanks...
Incidentally-the current system:
G3 Yosemite w/192MB Ram, 4 GB disk, Sys 8.6
DP 2.61 MTS, FreeMIDI 1.43, Clockworks 1.0.7
MTP-AV USB driver 1.11,firmware 2.0.0
PCI-324 driver 1.32 MAS 2.03
As an addendum - this morning I went back to an ADAT-centric system: ADAT I/I direct to the console, and only the Spirit group out connected to the 2408 - it reduced the number of clicks to one or two, but they still occur. Sounds like MOTU may still have the 'too fast for the ADAT" problem - I'll call them next.
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
[This message has been edited by David Kempton (edited 01-16-2000).]
[This message has been edited by David Kempton (edited 01-17-2000).]
[This message has been edited by David Kempton (edited 01-31-2000).]
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David Kempton
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#390664 - 01/21/00 06:23 AM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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Jan Pronk
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Registered: 01/19/00
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Loc: The Hague, Holland
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About the new Firmware for a Motu MTP AV. In holland they offered to upgrade it at no extra cost. Question. What is the MTP AV latest firmware version?
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#390665 - 01/25/00 03:01 AM
Re: May the Circle of Light remain unbroken
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David Kempton
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Okay, Roger, and the rest of the folks in MOTUland;
This is it! The 'final' word from MOTU regarding the clocking problem. Direct from Daniel Cate, the head tech support person:
"When the MTP-AV is the master and it receives a start command or
SMPTE from an external source, it will take a short moment to
re-clock. Some digital gear will pop as a result of this and some
mute when clock is not present. The only real work-around in this scenario is to use another clock device like a BRC as the master."
Isn't that interesting...
The reason I bought the MTP-AV in the first place was because my BRC would not function as timecode master - it only works at 48K and isn't stable enough to drive the Spirit console-even after upgrading to the latest and greatest. I contacted MOTU and asked if they had any ideas - the response was, "Sure-buy the MTP-AV. It can function as house clock and SMPTE generator, and be the MMC clearinghouse, too!"
After getting this last email, which effectively starts me at the beginning of the loop, I called MOTU tech support, and they confirmed it - they won't call it a bug, or an issue, or a problem, but it stops sending clock when it receives an MMC command. Some consoles (e.g., the O2-R,) will mute when this occurs, so MOTU doesn't consider it a problem. The techie I talked to emphasized that there is no word clock input on the MTP-AV. NOTE: There IS a connector above the clock out labeled clock in, but it appears he is correct-it won't recognize word clock from the Spirit console, and the manual, which shows lots of connections, never shows a cable connected to this connector... It's the mystery input.
The other 'funny' part of this saga is: there is no FF or REW capability in the system. That requires the BRC (which doesn't work at 44.1.) MOTU knows about this, it's in their manual, under "Transport control and shuttling with the LRC," (the Little Remote Control) on page 158. "All basic transport buttons (PLAY, STOP, REW, etc.) should function as labeled on the LRC. The Fast Forward and Rewind buttons shuttle forwards and backwards in ten-second intervals." Gee, is that the way my tape recorder works? Can you imagine The Donald waiting while you hit rewind, wait for the tape to go back ten seconds and stop, then hit rewind again, and again... (I know I can use locate, but it won't wind my tape back to the beginning of the reel, and besides, if FF/REW doesn't work, WHY ARE THE BUTTONS THERE?)
So the answer to my quest for a system that works like the ones in the reviews appears to be-yeah, right!
P.S.: Jan, the latest AV firmware is 2.1, and yes, if you're a registered user, it's free.
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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David Kempton
The Soundsmith
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