#390141 - 07/20/05 11:59 PM
OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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theblue1
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It's been a while, for sure. I think even dyed-in-the-wool, die-hard fans like me, people who still watch all four prime time L&O franchises, most of us, anyhow, will say it was sometime a ways before Lenny left the main show and made his sadly brief run on L&O Trial Whatever It Is (don't get me wrong, I do watch it, I just don't know, for sure what it's called, but my bet is something like Trial by Jury. Don't make me look this up. I'd have to get on the internet. Oh wait...)
And, you know, "jump the shark" may not really even be an operant phrase. Maybe it kind of sidled by the shark while no one was looking.
I know, for me, the first real, show-spoiling cognitivie diss was when Det. Green (on the Wed nite show), a college educated urban hipster when he was introduced (and in most episodes) supposedly didn't know who Nietzsche was, calling him "some German philosopher nobody's ever heard of."
That is definitely not what the Det. Green I know and have grown to respect the hip-for-a-cop credentials of would say. For sure.
Ach... gotta go, it's on.
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#390142 - 07/21/05 01:30 AM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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the stranger
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Recap?
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#390143 - 07/21/05 01:50 AM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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theblue1
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Recap?
This workaholic, sexaholic, very good looking young female attorney gets killed in the office, see, late at night, and there are all these other workaholic attorneys, some of whom have had sex with her and these two detectives, as different as night and day, investigate...
Hmmm... I think I see your point.
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#390144 - 07/21/05 11:41 AM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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the stranger
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I ws actually just being a smartass, because I had no clue what you were talking about in that first post. 
I was a fan of the original L&O, but that's about all I know. So if you see my point, please do let me know what it is...
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#390145 - 07/21/05 12:32 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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fantasticsound
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I like the original. In addition to being the original, it's had, by far, the most intelligent and humorous writing. If I can't have Homocide, that's my first call for cop shows. And I've never been anything but happy with their casting choices. (Though one or two of the female assistants to the assistant district attorney have been.. a little weak.)
SVU I enjoy, but too many times it seems contrived. Not nearly enough air time for Ice-T and Richard Belzer as Fin and Munch. Chris Meloni and Marissa Hargitay can be engaging, but when they start pontificating it gets really hokey, really fast. Dann Florek is usually excellent as the captain, just as he was on the original show, years ago.
CI is usually very good, but it has a very different feel than the original. I love Vincent
D'Onofrio as Det. Goren. It's an updated version of Columbo. He's not quite as humorous as Peter Falk, but he's damn good. Courtney Vance was fantastic in guest spots on the original series. He's equally good as the asst. DA in this show. The rest of the cast is strong, too.
Trial by Jury: I really want to like this show, but I find myself more and more dissatisfied with the character played by Bebe Neuwirth. Talk about annoying. And the detectives on this show (other than Jerry Orbach's few episodes) are ok, but not particularly engaging.
Just my $.02
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#390146 - 07/21/05 01:20 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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Super 8
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Recap?
_________________________
Super 8 Hear my stuff here "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw
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#390147 - 07/21/05 01:23 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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the stranger
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Yeah...what he said...
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#390148 - 07/21/05 01:25 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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the stranger
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
Or...
1. jump the shark
a term to describe a moment when somethin that was once great has reached a point where it will now decline in quality and popularity.
Origin of this phrase comes from a Happy Days episode where the Fonz jumped a shark on waterskis. Thus was labeled the lowest point of the show.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=jump+the+shark&f=1
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#390149 - 07/21/05 05:26 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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hard truth
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The loss of Jerry Orbach was a fatal blow in my opinion. That annoying guy in Criminal Intent is too much for me, I just want to slap him. I like Trial by Jury, its the only one that has any freshness at this point. I like BebE Neuwirth.
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#390150 - 07/21/05 10:36 PM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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TinderArts
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I remember Meloni being taken to the principal's office to have his haircut 'cause it went below his collar. True story.
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#390151 - 07/22/05 12:19 AM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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theblue1
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Ah... this thread developed a little life of its own.
I know some folks who think the shark-jumping happened with Crim Intent and the quite quirky Det. Goren, but I like that show.
I had to stop watching SVU for a while the first year or two, it just creeped me out too much.
I think the writing on the original has gone down terribly... like the first restaurant in the small chain, it seems to be suffering neglect. And SVU seems stuck... how many sickening rapes and child murders can you 'explore' before the horror achieves a dreary sameness. And the sidebar dramatic arcs (Hagerty's alcoholic rape-victim mom and Meloni's overwound newly divorced dad) are getting a big shopworn.
One or two people mentioned preachiness -- I'm pretty sure they're responding to the same stilted "postition exposition" issue-exploration dialog that annoys the bananas out of me.
When L&O first appeared it didn't insult its audience's intelligence by explaining everything to death and putting pregurgitated political/social positions in the mouths of the characters...
And, of course, it had Det Mike Logan, the lightening tempered Irish Catholoic blue collar cop. I really liked the 2 hour "Exiled" that followed a year or two after he left the show (his character punched out a crooked politician on the courthouse steps and ended up in Staten Island). Its darkly disappointing ending was a perfect one... even though I was really pulling for Det. Mike...
I sort of like the Friday show, too. I like seeing the defense side, as well, the machinations and moral and ethical compromises that parallel the ones we've been watching from Sam Waterson and Michael Moriarty before him on the prosecution side. (I like Bebe Neuwirth and her character. I always had a thing for her as Lilith on Cheers and saw her in the late 80s or early 90s in a stage presentation of Sweet Charity, which gave her a chance to show off her still great legs. Of course, she hasn't gone the scalpel and botox rout, but I think that's pretty cool. (I liked her in that show about the ex-cop turned cabbie on CBS a few years back, too.)
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#390152 - 07/22/05 06:08 AM
Re: OT: 10PM Wed -- Just when DID Law & Order jump the shark?
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forceman
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IMO, L&O jumped the shark when Steven Hill left the show and was replaced by Fred Dalton Thompson.
Although a fine actor, Thompson simply doesn't fit the part as the NYC DA.
Dennis Farina doesn't fit, either--a poor replacement for Jerry Orbach's stellar role.
NBC--in fourth place in network ratings..
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