#390028 - 07/20/05 02:00 PM
Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Jeff Leites
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Last Saturday I saw the legendary Link Wray perform to a large audience at a street fair type venue. After the show, I went to the stage exit area in hopes of getting an autograph and maybe a picture with him. There were 11 or 12 of us in all waiting there with the same hopes. It's not like we were a crowd of hundreds of screaming teenage girls. We were all calm adults, mostly in our 30s thru 50s. We were told that his contract stated that he did not have to meet with anyone before or after the show. Some of us waited anyway, in case he changed his mind. In the end there were 6 of use left when he got in a van and was driven off. He was, maybe 20 feet away and he wouldn't even acknowledge us. It would have been a big thrill for us to have met him. What's the big deal in meeting 6 people and making their day? 
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#390029 - 07/20/05 02:09 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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GeorgeVW
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Sometimes people who can deal with an audience can't deal with individual people.
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#390030 - 07/20/05 02:12 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Mudcat
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I was never a big fan of the band Alabama, but they definitely didn't have the attitude Link Wray demonstrated. I worked local crew for a show of theirs in the mid-80s. They stayed around after the show until everyone who wanted an autograph had a chance to meet them. I know they were still their after midnight. This was when they were at their peak in popularity.
Too bad Link turned out to be a jerk. :rolleyes:
_________________________
Mudcat's music on Soundclick "Work hard. Rock hard. Eat hard. Sleep hard. Grow big. Wear glasses if you need 'em."-The Webb Wilder Credo-
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#390031 - 07/20/05 02:15 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Flemtone
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I got into a major argument with someone about this same subject.
Saw a relatively popular Canadian band and, afterwards, some of the bandmembers came out to 'meet and greet'. The guitar player, however, didn't. This one 'fan' and self-proclaimed 'friend of the band' went on a tirade about how this musician 'owed it to the fans' to come out and press the flesh, get his pic taken, sign autographs, etc. My argument was: you paid for your ticket, they gave you their performance. Anything else is strictly up to the performer. They don't 'owe' this guy, me, any of the other fans, a flipping thing.
Sure, it would have been NICE for him to come out, but it's not required.
Was it rude? Probably.
Does it make you think any less of him or his music? In other words, will it affect your future purchases of this artist's material?
If the answer is 'yes', then he'll be punished for his actions through lower sales.
Maybe he got some bad news. Maybe his shoes hurt. Maybe he was exhausted. Maybe he had diahhrea.
Maybe he was just being an asshole.
Aside from that, how was the show?
peace,
Tim from Jersey 
_________________________
http://www.flemtones.net"Poor writing skills are the 60 cycle hum of the written word" -Brother Dave Brown
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#390032 - 07/20/05 02:15 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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A String
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I played a gig once where we opened for Chubby Checker. It was a small tour so I offered to do sound a lighting for him for free after we got off stage.
After the gig was over, I went back to ask him for his autograph. He said "No". He insisted that he didn't have time. He was rude and thoughtless.
I practically had to beg him before he finely gave in and signed a bar napkin for me.
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#390033 - 07/20/05 02:19 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Flemtone
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Originally posted by GeorgeVW:
Sometimes people who can deal with an audience can't deal with individual people.
A very possible reason. Thanks, GVW
_________________________
http://www.flemtones.net"Poor writing skills are the 60 cycle hum of the written word" -Brother Dave Brown
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#390034 - 07/20/05 02:28 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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fantasticsound
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I have to tell you, Jeff, I understand how you feel but I have to disagree with you.
I've been on both sides of this situation and I can sympathize with any celebrity who decides not to meet and greet, for several reasons.
- You don't know anything about the situation. He may have had any number of personal or professional reasons for not stopping.
- Just because there were a dozen or so of you doesn't mean the moment he steps out there wouldn't be 10x that number. I've seen it happen. "This will just take a moment guys..." Famous last words.
 - No matter where you make the cutoff, someone will be upset. I was with an artist who had but 2 months to do all the touring she could manage for the entire year. Singing almost every day, her voice became ragged. Almost had to cancel some shows. She was really worn out on one gig, at a fair in New Paltz, NY. She signed as long as she could muster, then went inside the bus. We were stuck there for a while, her bus separated from fans by a string of flags. Despite knowing full well the situation, a dozen or so fans refused to leave and chanted, "We want Julie, we want Julie!" (Not her name.) Every time someone entered or left the bus they insisted on using anything they could think of to say to get someone to ask her to come out. The girl was in serious discomfort, trapped in a bus and even after being asked politely to stop, they kept right on begging.
- A meet & greet at a show is part of the product a celebrity sells a promoter or venue. The cost of the performance can change depending on what, other than the show, is expected. How can you charge for this additionally when you end up giving it away for free to serve the fans? Like it or not, being a celebrity is a business. Now do celebrities have to work their business that way? No. But you shouldn't fault them for making the most of their "product" Some charge the fans for autographs. I think that's a bit over the top, personally, but look how many of those autographed items end up on Ebay right away. I was disappointed Gene Simmons wouldn't sign my guitar at a book signing, but frankly, I'm sure there have been people who show up with a cheap POS guitar, just to get it signed to sell. It's a sad comment on our treatment of celebrities, as well as their treatment of the fans.
I was appalled when, in a newspaper story about Reba McEntire, she admonished her young son at the mall a mile from my house because, when confronted with fans as they shopped, he said, "No autographs!" He was 5 or 6 years old. She told him they (the fans) paid for all the wonderful things in the McEntire's life, so he would just have to respect their requests. That was just plain wrong.
A few years later, we saw a comment from Reba I believe alluded to that exact situation, where she had come to realize that fans deserve respect, but when she's out having time with her family, it's about them and not the fans.
Made me proud to be someone who, when I saw her in a local restaurant, didn't even attempt to get her attention. I don't deserve to interupt anyone's meal when they're out with their family.
I know, you weren't interupting his personal time. I only mentioned that because of how often I hear people get upset with celebrities who are genuinely nice people, but have to make a cutoff somewhere. It happens.
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#390035 - 07/20/05 02:32 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Gabriel E.
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I don't think artists "owe" anyone anything.
If they come out and sign autographs, etc. that's an added bonus and may definitely help with fan loyalty, public image, etc. Some artists love this stuff. Some thrive on the attention and want to be famous. Others simply feel a need to create and perform and don't want fame, attention, etc. Bob Dylan comes to mind.
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"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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#390036 - 07/20/05 02:35 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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I have to bring up something.
In my job, I work with a lot of famous people. One of them seemed to be a super guy, but I noted that he'd get really irritated when fans approached him on the street or other public places, asking for photos or autographs.
I brought this up to him, asking, "So why is it that you don't seem to want to deal with fans?"
He gave me a two-word answer: John Lennon.
He said he never knew who was going to be the nice person with an honest intent to meet them, versus a psycho who wanted to kill him to get their name on the news.
That's why when people were making fun of Tom Cruise getting upset having water splashed on him, I had to wonder... what if it wasn't water? What if it were hydrochloric acid? AIDS-infected urine? You have to almost assume the lowest depths of human behavior, the worst common denominator of humanity, when these situations pop up.
Personally? I'd avoid fan contact at all times. this is one reason I never, ever want to be famous. Rich would be nice, though. 
- Jeff
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#390037 - 07/20/05 02:45 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Lee Flier
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Yeah... the problem is that it's not necessarily a "snub" but there are a lot of fans who will take it that way no matter what a celebrity does. Famous or not, everybody has different tolerance levels for socializing. It's nice when stars have the energy to stand around and sign autographs after every show, but nobody should take offense if they don't. If you bought your ticket and the star delivered a great performance, they've given you all they "owe" you.
It's kinda like at a regular job. Some people like to go and hang out at the local watering hole with their co-workers after work, or join their boss' country club, or whatever. They might be doing it just because they think it will further their career vis-a-vis just going home at quitting time, or they might just enjoy socializing or golfing more than the next guy. But the fact is... if you do a good job and then just go home after work, you're not "snubbing" anybody (though some might try to make you feel as if you are). You just have other things to do, or you're tired and just want to go home and have some much needed chill time. Stars are not any different.
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#390038 - 07/20/05 03:05 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Billster
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Once upon a time when I was playing in a bar band, we finished the first set (of three) and one of the patrons approached during the break and started making all kinds of suggestions about how to improve the show and what songs we should play and yadayadayada. I kind of thanked him (not well enough apparently) and said I had a few things to do before we started the next set.
The guy went OFF. Said I was "being all rock star" and not paying attention, and shouting and pointing fingers. My bass player (whose hobby is body-building BTW) settled him down a little and I guess gave him appropriate fan appreciation.
You all know that when you're on a gig, there's business to do before and after the stage portion is done. Whether it's between sets or the end of the night, there's stuff to do that is part of being professional about your conduct. Unfortunately, that sometimes means the fans are slid down the list.
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#390039 - 07/20/05 03:08 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Brittanylips
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Originally posted by Lee Flier:
Yeah... the problem is that it's not necessarily a "snub" but there are a lot of fans who will take it that way no matter what a celebrity does. Famous or not, everybody has different tolerance levels for socializing. It's nice when stars have the energy to stand around and sign autographs after every show, but nobody should take offense if they don't. If you bought your ticket and the star delivered a great performance, they've given you all they "owe" you.
It's kinda like at a regular job. Some people like to go and hang out with their co-workers after work, or join their boss' country club, or whatever. They might be doing it just because they think it will further their career vis-a-vis just going home at quitting time, or they might just enjoy socializing or golfing more than the next guy. But the fact is... if you do a good job and then just go home after work, you're not "snubbing" anybody (though some might try to make you feel as if you are). You just have other things to do, or you're tired and just want to go home and have some much needed chill time. Stars are not any different.
-Peace, Love, and Brittanylips
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#390040 - 07/20/05 03:22 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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PBBPaul
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I'm not an autograph nut at all but I remember one gig I did with Sam Lay. Another band mate and I were gabbing with him after the show and my bandmate asked him for an autograph. He handed us 8X10's of himself but would not autograph them. Period. I always thought that was kinda strange. On another occasion, I was having beers with Jimmy Page and Robert Plant and they were the most gracious, decent, friendly and polite people. I asked for and received my first-ever autograph from Jimmy Page. Afterward, I wondered if Robert had felt somehow slighted because I didn't ask him. I just don't like to intrude.
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#390041 - 07/20/05 03:36 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Lee Knight
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I like to avoid contact with musicians/entertainers I admire. It's always a letdown.
I remember being backstage at a Costello concert, Universal Amphitheatre around '84. There was Elvis C, John Hiatt, and Peter Case.
My drummer and I were huge fans of all 3. Huge gaga fans. He's had maybe 5 beers by this time and says to me, "hey, I'm going to go over and say hey." I told him not to. They're talking. These 3 guys, really great songwriters, are obviously enjoying thier conversation together... don't do it.
He walks over, drools him salutaions, they all 3 roll their eyes at each other, fake politeness and turn away fron him. I don't blame them. Not a snub, just not the big warm hug he was expecting.
I swear he had a tear in his eye when he came back over.
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#390043 - 07/20/05 03:44 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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fantasticsound
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I was sitting at a restaurant with the mandolin player from the band I was mixing at Opryland. He's friends with Ricky Skaggs. He'd already pointed out Ricky's and Sharon's matching Jeeps in the parking lot. As we waited for our food, Ricky and Sharon walked by on their way out.
Bobby and Ricky said their hellos and Bobby introduced me. A moment later Ricky and Sharon left.
The waitress came up to us, after seeing us speak with Skaggs, and proceeded to lambast him for not signing a napkin for them.
What a moron. She saw we were his acquaintances and still she felt free to bad mouth him to us. :rolleyes: We smiled and waved...
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#390044 - 07/20/05 03:58 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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GeorgeVW
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Originally posted by fantasticsound:
I was with an artist who had but 2 months to do all the touring she could manage for the entire year. Singing almost every day, her voice became ragged. Almost had to cancel some shows. She was really worn out on one gig, at a fair in New Paltz, NY.
I miss Skeeter. She was one of a kind.
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#390045 - 07/20/05 04:00 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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GTRBass
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There is significant PR value for an artist to do a meet and greet, but there are ways to do it.
No artist is obligated to his/her fans to be so available to them. Some people are very introverted and it is difficult to do a one on one with numerous people, especially just after performing onstage.
I have toured with artists who do meet & greets. There are two types of meet & greets, a general public M&G, and a VIP M&G. The VIP ones are usually reserved for prominent people or radio station contest winners. They're more like a backstage party and are for 15 - 30 people.
1) Most important, the M&G must be chaperoned. A contained area is preferrable for security reasons. It's a controlled environment.
2) The security usually sets the rules with the crowd beforehand and say ok, there's no "this or that" allowed. Then the artist is brought in.
3) For a general public M&G a receiving line behind a barricade or table is better because it sets the tone that there is a boundary.
4) The road dogs must always be the bad guys and say when it's over. Usually there is a predetermined duration. The road mgr or a designated PA comes in with enough security muscle (or local cops) to control the crowd and says "thank you very much ladies and gentlemen, he/she/they have to go now". That way the artist is off the hook for being a d*ck. It's the mgr's fault.
For many artists (who aren't superstars) it's also a potential way to generate much needed tour revenue. Howard Jones used to do it near the merch table. If you bought some merch he would graciously sign it for you. King's X will do that too. Comedian Craig Shoemaker does a public M&G in a receiving line after his shows where you have to buy merch to get his attention. You buy a hat, DVD or CD, he shakes your hand and signs it for you. I'll bet he does $10K a night in merch alone!
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#390046 - 07/20/05 04:01 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Gabriel E.
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Originally posted by Mudcat: Clarification: My comment about LW being a jerk is due to the fact he didn't even acknowledge the folks as he was leaving. After re-reading what I included about Alabama I realized I implied I felt he had an obligation to sign autographs. This was not my intention.
He could have at least waved as he was leaving. 
As someone who has contributed so much to the cannon of 20th century music, why is it that people feel that Charles somehow owes them more than that? Why should someone who busted his ass for decades creating such wonderful music should be expected to also grin and wave to a bunch of people he doesn't know?
Same thing goes for Link Wray. He already gave us "Rumble". Why do we need him to wave too?
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"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
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#390047 - 07/20/05 04:05 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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GTRBass
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I also know that many mega-celebrities will not sign autographs when approached in public because they see people selling them on ebay, etc.
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#390048 - 07/20/05 04:32 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Jeff Leites
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Originally posted by Flemtone:
Aside from that, how was the show?
Remember the quality is very poor.
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#390049 - 07/20/05 05:31 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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TeleCarlos
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Duuude, Ray Charles is blind!!! Come on!?!? What did you expect, to wink at you?!?!
Ok, lame joke.... I know.
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#390050 - 07/20/05 05:36 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Franky
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Ray Charles is blind dude! So if he ignores people it might just be because he's blind. If I were blind, I think I would scared of screaming crowds.
It's nice when celebrites take time to talk to fans, but I don't they owe their fans any face time.
Jeff Da Weasel made good points about the dangers of being a celebrity, and Lee made good points about how some people are more social than others.
Carl Jung said that he has was always disappointed when he would meet someone famous.
I think it's tough being a celebrity, and famous people have already made plenty of sacrifices to bring the public entertainment.
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#390051 - 07/20/05 05:37 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Franky
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Whoops, TeleCarlos beat me to it.
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#390052 - 07/20/05 06:09 PM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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fantasticsound
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Originally posted by GeorgeVW: Originally posted by fantasticsound:
I was with an artist who had but 2 months to do all the touring she could manage for the entire year. Singing almost every day, her voice became ragged. Almost had to cancel some shows. She was really worn out on one gig, at a fair in New Paltz, NY.
I miss Skeeter. She was one of a kind.
As for Skeeter, she was a class act. Because I mixed for Mike Snider I had backstage access to the Opry anytime I wanted, for about 2 years. My father-in-law is a big Skeeter Davis fan and I took him backstage one night and he got to meet her. He's kinda shy about celebrities. Anyway, she was kind as can be, just off stage in the wings.
Later, my wife bought her dad a biography of Skeeter Davis and I brought it to the Opry office. One of the ladies who ran the artist entrance was kind enough to put it in Skeeter's mailbox with a note asking her to sign and return it. A week or two later I picked it up with a sweet note.
Like I said.. she was really a class act.
I've seen Garth Brooks at 12:30pm outside the Opry, signing autographs in front of his truck at the artist entrance, guard gate, with a full load of people in the crew cab, waiting patiently. That night we stopped on our way back to our audio warehouse at Opryland and he signed my mini-Les Paul. But had he declined when I asked if I could join the line of about 15 more fans, I would've entirely understood and just have been happy to have seen him autographing for the fans who'd waited all night. At the time he was still in the halo of having spent 23 hours straight at Fan Fair signing autographs, and several hours (at least an hour longer than anyone else) signing autographs for broadcasters at Country Radio Seminar, its' last year at the Opryland Hotel.
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#390054 - 07/21/05 12:05 AM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Franky
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I think if you love your fans and your fans love you and you love spending spending time with your fans then more power to you Gus!
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#390055 - 07/21/05 02:01 AM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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theblue1
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I don't know anything at all about Link Wray, the man, but I've known a lot of musical artists who, paradoxically perhaps, have serious problems being in public. For them, the proscenium barrier, whether real or symbolic, is the only thing (bestides some blinding footlights) allowing them to fulfill their craft by performing live for a -- hopefully -- understanding audience.
I can certainly sympathize with you and the other fans, but it may be hard to imagine the pressures and discomforts, both physical and psychic, of life on the road for a man Wray's age.
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#390056 - 07/21/05 02:05 AM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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theblue1
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Originally posted by A String:
I played a gig once where we opened for Chubby Checker. It was a small tour so I offered to do sound a lighting for him for free after we got off stage.
After the gig was over, I went back to ask him for his autograph. He said "No". He insisted that he didn't have time. He was rude and thoughtless.
I practically had to beg him before he finely gave in and signed a bar napkin for me.
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#390057 - 07/21/05 03:23 AM
Re: Is it ok for a star to snub his fans?
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Tedster
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Well, I can tell you...I get approached for autographs all the time! Yup, people, mostly salesmen, wanting me to "autograph" contracts so they can put vinyl siding on my house, or new storm windows, or something. They might think I'm a dick 'cause I tell them all to jump in the lake.
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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- and if we have the time, we stop to sign as many autographs we can -we're still a small act- and all the pics they want.
