#388388 - 07/11/05 10:46 PM
Any HVAC experts?
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PBBPaul
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I have an emergency. My wife is 8 months pregnant and the AC is cutting out intermittently. She's not happy.
The compressor is working fine, cold air is getting into the furnace but it's like there's a valve inside the furnace that locks or freezes up. The fan works OK but nothing is coming out the vents. FWIW, it's a 9 year old Trane XE80 that was used about once a year until this summer.
Anybody know anything about this stuff?
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#388389 - 07/11/05 11:03 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Dak Lander
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Seems like it's low on refrigerant.
Also, make sure the piping on the condenser is insulated.
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#388390 - 07/11/05 11:24 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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AudioMaverick
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I think it sounds like a freon recharge issue to me, too. That happened to my last house unit. We used it maybe 5 days a year. 8 years later, it needed a recharge. the repair man said to use it at least once a month for about 20 or 30 minutes. We didn't do that when it was below 50 degrees out side.
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#388391 - 07/11/05 11:51 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Lee Flier
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Are you saying nothing at all is coming out of the vents, or that what comes out isn't cold? And are you sure the fan is coming on... not only the fan inside the furnace but the one on the top of the outdoor AC unit itself?
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#388392 - 07/12/05 12:02 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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AudioMaverick
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Oops. I glossed right over that, Lee.
"The fan works OK but nothing is coming out the vents."
I'm not sure what would be obstructing the air flow.
Ignore my previous post...
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#388393 - 07/12/05 06:52 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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PBBPaul
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Both fans work - the condenser unit outside as well as the furnace fan. There is plenty of cold air coming into the furnace and the piping is well insulated. I don't think it's a refrigerant issue. It would seem that there is some kind of valve that doesn't open within the the furnace to let the air out into the ducts. There are a couple of very small leaks at the seams of the furnace and I can feel the cold air being forced out there when it's running yet little or nothing comes out of the vents 6 feet away. When I shut it down for a while, it comes back and works OK. That's what leads me to believe that a valve is freezing up. I was hoping somebody here might have experienced this or might have been an HVAC tech in a previous or parallel life. 
Thank you for any help.
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#388394 - 07/12/05 07:42 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Tim Mayock
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I would check the air filter. It may just need to be replaced, that could stop the blower from being able to do it's job
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#388395 - 07/12/05 08:55 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Dak Lander
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Originally posted by PBBPaul:
When I shut it down for a while, it comes back and works OK. That's what leads me to believe that a valve is freezing up.
Does it take R-22 or R-12? The pressures are different and they are not interchangable.
Both refrigerants require a license to purchase and install though some people are still doing it on the QT.
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#388396 - 07/12/05 09:14 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Botch.
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With an 8-month pregnancy in the house, I wouldn't fool around. Check the air filter first then get a repairman over there ASAP.
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#388397 - 07/12/05 09:27 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Jimbroni
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It sounds like a recharge or something major if not so I'm with Botch. However, its always good to check your filter. Also, step outside and take a look at your condensor unit, keep debris and weeds, etc. off that unit and give it an annual spray out if you don't already, your checkbook will thank you later.
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#388398 - 07/12/05 09:43 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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BTW - If it's not the filter, and depending on the type of system you have, you may be freezing up the system.
The outdoor unit does not pump cold air into the furnace. It pumps cold refrigerant into what looks like a radiator. (Because that's what it is, though it's radiating cold air instead of hot.
If your blades have become dirty (despite the air filter, or if you ran the system, summer or winter, with no air filter) then those blades and the tubes that feed the refrigerant can freeze up to where your fan is attempting to push air through a solid block of ice.
That would account for your ability to feel cold through the leaks in the system but have no airflow despite the fans working.
One other important point. Call the repairman and ask him what he wants you to do immediately! He may tell you it's exactly what I've laid out and, if so, will probably tell you to shut down the system immediately. First, because you're libel to burn out your furnace fan as it attempts to force air where it cannot possibly move it. Second, because he won't be able to work on the system until the coils melt.
Call the repairman right away, Paul and get your wife to a neighbor or family member's house for the duration. There's too much riding on this and I know you know what I mean.
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#388399 - 07/12/05 09:59 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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PBBPaul
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Originally posted by Botch.:
With an 8-month pregnancy in the house, I wouldn't fool around. Check the air filter first then get a repairman over there ASAP.
The reason I don't think it's refrigerant is that the furnace is cold to the touch and I can feel very cold air leaking out of it when the fan and AC unit are running.
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#388400 - 07/12/05 10:07 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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But, Paul, that is exactly what you'd expect if the internal-radiator is frozen. It completely obstructs the air flow, causing the unit to feel cold to the touch but little or no airflow at the vents.
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#388401 - 07/12/05 10:09 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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BTW - I hate to admit this, but I'm, unfortunately, speaking from experience. I initially had to cut a door into my inside unit to clean the blades, but when the fan went out and the price was outrageous, just to buy the part, I made the jump to a new unit. (The previous one was old.)
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#388402 - 07/12/05 10:10 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Lee Flier
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Yeah, I'm with Neil. I'll bet your system is frozen up, I've had that happen before. Well, here in the South one has to become very intimate with one's AC. Most of us have had everything that could go wrong with an AC, go wrong at least once. 
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#388404 - 07/12/05 10:16 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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PBBPaul
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Thank you all for your help!
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#388405 - 07/12/05 10:35 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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phaeton
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Yep, my guess would be the condensor freezing up. In the shop they would tell us to hit it with the hose to melt the ice off, and then right after that tell us not to do that.
A more innocuous method, believe this or don't- When it stops blowing cold air, shut it off. If you can, have it so that the fan is still running, but the refrigerant pump is not- in theory this would start blowing hot ambient air onto the iced up condensor. When the ice melts you can turn the a/c back on.
If *that* is the case, then it's time to figure out why it's freezing up- check its drainage tray and weep lines for blockage- leaves, sticks, rocks, wasp nests, dead rats, salami sandwiches... all these things like to crawl into tight places and plug up the drainage capabilities.
My next suggestion- Like it's been said. Don't foolaround, call the tech. Usually it is money well spent, and in roughly a month or so you will really need to have the place cool 
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#388406 - 07/12/05 11:32 AM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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What phaeton said. If you use a hose (Lukewarm or cool water! You don't want to compound your problem with a busted condenser pipe.) be sure to have a wet/dry, shop vac ready to sop up the mess as it may be too much for the drain to handle.
And again, it may not be the drain plug. There might be enough of an air leak that, over the years, allowed enough dust to accumulate on the fins and cause them to hold on to condensation, which then froze before it could fall to the pan and drain.
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#388407 - 07/12/05 01:00 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Lee Knight
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I lived in Kenosh, WI, for a few years. 8 mos. pregnant and no AC? I hope you get this solved for your sake. She's going to KILL you!
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#388411 - 07/12/05 02:08 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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When were you boys in Kenosha? (I grew up about 25 minutes away on the south, Lake County, IL border with Cook County.
I spent much of my mispent youth near Kenosha.
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#388412 - 07/12/05 02:12 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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And Illinois Beach State Park is the sorriest state park I've ever been to. :rolleyes: I have no idea what was worth preserving there.  (And we spent a night or two as part of a school field trip, camping near the beach. 
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#388413 - 07/12/05 02:24 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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phaeton
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When were you boys in Kenosha?
In my case, 1999-2000 or so... i live and work near Lake Geneva, so i'm still about 30 minutes from it. I was just there this weekend looking for a computer desk.
I must've spoke too soon about illinois beach state park.... i only saw a little bit of the top half. :rolleyes:
Waitaminutenow.... isn't PBBPaul's wife melting? (It's raining where i'm at, btw)
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#388414 - 07/12/05 03:10 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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Lee Knight
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I was in Kenosha 93 to 95. I road the train everyday down the coast of the lake into Chicago to study acoustics at Columbia.
Then I'd ride that train back...
There were a lot of pissed off, union, shopsweepers out of work 'cause the AMC plant had closed recently. Lots of people ready to get into a bar fight.
Kenosha, WI. Just like I pictured it!
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#388415 - 07/12/05 03:13 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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PBBPaul
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She's not melting... She's doing just fine. The AC has been working just fine today. I'll take a look at it tonight.
Racine/Kenosha... What a butt-ugly part of the state. I get depressed just driving through there. Lake Geneva is pretty nice though.
I thought Happy Days was supposed to be in Milwaukee. IIRC, they based the drive in on Leon's Custard Stand on South 27th St.
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#388417 - 07/12/05 04:09 PM
Re: Any HVAC experts?
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fantasticsound
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Originally posted by Lee Knight:
I was in Kenosha 93 to 95. I road the train everyday down the coast of the lake into Chicago to study acoustics at Columbia.
Then I'd ride that train back...
BTW - Did you go to the big alumni shindig last month. I couldn't make it. 
And Lake Geneva, Phaeton?? I had no idea. My inlaws live in Lake Villa, Il, just south of Antioch. Haven't been up your way in half my lifetime, though. Closest I've come was House On The Rock and that was years ago. I keep threatening to visit with Paul when I'm at the folks, but so far I've never had the time... so why not add you to our plans that never seem to work out?
The first time I saw Saturday Night Live was its' inaugural season, at a small hotel in Lake Geneva. We were on a trip with a boys club my dad and some other dad's, disenchanted with a boy-scout-like group devised on their own. We went snowmobiling on the lake, in back of our hotel, and pretty much goofed off for a weekend. I think I was 8.
Oh, yeah.. didn't Paul say something about an air conditioner?? 
Let us know how it works out, Paul.
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