#2927 - 08/09/01 12:06 PM
-4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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teh dri
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Registered: 07/05/01
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i was just wondering what the connection between -4 and +10 is
ive read -4 is more "pro"
has this anything to do with balanced/unbalanced cables?
what is line level?
things of this nature.....
any help or resources to check appreciated. oh and for the record i did a 'search' on the boards and found no relevant information.
thanks...
DRi-
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#2928 - 08/09/01 12:10 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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atomicdog
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Registered: 05/24/01
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Loc: OLIVIA,MN,UNITED STATES
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check out a site called http://www.studiocovers.com/articles.htm I think you might find just about anything you could want to know there.
mike
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#2929 - 08/09/01 12:16 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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miroslav
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Originally posted by DRiLoad:
...oh and for the record i did a 'search' on the boards and found no relevant information.
Boy...now there's a "slap-in-the-face" to all of us forum "regulars". 
I can't believe that...must be some bad "keywords" in your SEARCH field... 
OK...real quick:
It's +4 and -10
Balanced is usually associated with +4, unbalanced with -10
If you want some great technical information in a Tech Note form...check out http://www.rane.com/
Their Tech Notes are pure gold!!!
But I'm sure if you fix that "keyword" problem you can turn up a lot if info right here on the forums too!
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#2930 - 08/09/01 03:22 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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philbo_Tangent
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Registered: 10/08/00
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Loc: Iowa
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Basically, one is referenced to 1V, and one is referenced to .775V, so the actual dB values are not actually 14dB apart. They are more like 11.8 dB (I don't remember the exact number, offhand..)
Read this - It's the best tutorial I've run into on the subject:
http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/EA68A9018C905AFB8625675400514576
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#2931 - 08/09/01 10:07 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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teh dri
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a slap in the face it may be for you guys, but ive never let anything like that get in the way of my education
you guys know a lot so there's no harm in asking. oh and of course, thanks for the links. 
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#2932 - 08/09/01 11:12 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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fantasticsound
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Though I'm sure you'll get more info from the posted links, here's a short answer.
-10dB reference is a relatively low, line level. It is typically the standard for consumer audio, dj equipment, and inexpensive (read: cheap) pro audio gear. Any non-digital, audio input or output with an RCA connector will be -10dB reference. RCA cables support only unbalanced connection.
+4dB reference is used on pro audio gear. It is typically sent over balanced lines, though not always. The hotter signal, among other things, allows you to push the level less at amplification stages, but results in more level at the speaker amplification stage with less noise.
There's a LOT more to it, but this can help you get started connecting audio gear. Remember, digital audio outputs and analog video outputs are completely different than -10dB analog, unbalanced audio. The fact that the same RCA type connectors are used for all three signals can be confusing to the novice.
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Neil
Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.
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#2933 - 08/09/01 11:41 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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audioboy_dup1
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Registered: 09/26/01
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Loc: englewood,CO,UNITED STATES
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There are devices on the market sometimes called 10-4 or balancing boxes made by Aphex, DBX, Henry Audio, Radio Design Labs, etc. that match -10 to +4 levels.
http://www.markertec.com/MTStore/Store.cfm?Idx=audio+adapters&main=product.cf m?BaseItem=XLF-XLFCM
search for...
FP-UBC2 Unbalanced to Balanced Audio Converter by Radio Design Labs
has a large choice of A/V accessories and toys
have fun
This message has been edited by Audioboy on 08-09-2001 at 09:46 PM
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#2934 - 08/10/01 01:15 AM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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teh dri
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fantasticsound is king
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#2936 - 08/10/01 11:46 AM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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rebonn
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Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 441
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What's active balanced?
I have a Denon combi deck that caused me havoc because the nominal level is +18 on the XLR outputs!
A line level shifter helped a little but I had to end up using the RCA outputs.
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#2937 - 08/10/01 02:02 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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fantasticsound
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Originally posted by rebonn:
What's active balanced?
I have a Denon combi deck that caused me havoc because the nominal level is +18 on the XLR outputs!
A line level shifter helped a little but I had to end up using the RCA outputs.
What are you plugging the XLR cable into? Most inexpensive mixers are not equipped to handle line level of any sort through the XLR inputs. Why? They're optimized for mic inputs. With no pad or line input switch, a little mixer will freak out because the input is too sensitive to handle the line output, especially +4dB ref.
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Neil
Reality: A few moments of lucidity surrounded by insanity.
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#2938 - 08/10/01 02:26 PM
Re: -4, +10, line level, unbalanced...... ???
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rebonn
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Registered: 04/10/01
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I tried XLR to phone plug adapters to line inputs because of the distance I had to run it.
The problem was the active balanced +18 nominal level.
Why so hot? What would this be used for?
Also what is active balanced?
Thanks
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