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#2010527 - 11/10/08 07:18 AM Confidence
Billster Offline
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Don't know why, I just feel really comfortable and confident with my playing lately. Been dabbling with giving lessons, and certainly playing with absolute beginners makes my technique seem more advanced (!) \:D

Then again, I've been doing some writing. A few weeks ago I had an idea for a tune, and I sat down and played the melody I had in my head, easily grabbed some chords that set the mood I was after, wrote it down and that was that. Head to guitar to paper in 10 minutes.

And finally, taking those new tunes I've been writing and applying various performance techniques, and playing some standard repertoire tunes in my own arrangement has felt pretty easy and I like what I'm hearing.

In a way it feels like I've broken through a plateau and have a renewed confidence in my ability.

How are you lot doing?

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#2010529 - 11/10/08 07:24 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
Phil W Offline
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Confidence is an illusive thing, isn't it? It comes and goes. Right now I've got quite a bit of it as I've done quite well in some difficult circumstances in recent gigs (stand-in things and the like) as well as getting to play pretty much what I want (and loads of solos) in my regular jazz and fusion gig.

The first time I had to play a dozen solos per night (it's a 4 hour gig) I found it pretty hard but soling regularly in public has really advanced my performance.

Teaching does help, I'm currently teaching my drummer bass. A lot of what I know is intuitive so it comes as a surprise sometimes to realise the techniques which I use subconsciously.

I think confidence is one of the key factors in musical performance - that and being able to lose the ego, quit forcing it and just let it flow.
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#2010538 - 11/10/08 07:36 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
Billster Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Phil W
A lot of what I know is intuitive so it comes as a surprise sometimes to realise the techniques which I use subconsciously.


Ever heard of "asking a caterpillar how it walks" ? You try to explain something reflexive, and suddenly you are tripping all over yourself. \:D

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#2010549 - 11/10/08 07:59 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
Phil W Offline
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Yes. Neat analogy!
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#2010550 - 11/10/08 08:02 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
Caevan O'Shite Online   happy
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That's great- and it's all tangible!
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#2010557 - 11/10/08 08:12 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
MILLO Offline
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Confidence is something I tend to lack. Practice helps, as usual.
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#2010582 - 11/10/08 09:18 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
Guitar Geezer Offline
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...and that new guitar probably helps spark some new creative juices ;\)
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#2010586 - 11/10/08 09:26 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Guitar Geezer]
terrell Offline
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I'm always confidently humble... I'm still enjoying the craft. I'm where I should be. It's such a never ending evolution.

I think its more fulfilling when one grasps the concept of and embraces the "journey". It can be pretty disappointing for those that want to "arrive". My $0.02...

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#2010587 - 11/10/08 09:27 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Guitar Geezer]
MILLO Offline
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Phil W said: "The first time I had to play a dozen solos per night (it's a 4 hour gig) I found it pretty hard but soling regularly in public has really advanced my performance."

..and this is what I say:

Man, improvising in public should ideally be the same issue as improvising while jamming or while practicing. Maybe it's my lack of confidence, but in front of an audience it really feels different to me, not-so-experienced in such a thing. I do have to improvise both solos and accompaniment on all my gigs nowadays, so it's not like it's something entirely new to me, but definitely something I should spend more time/energy working on, just to feel more freedom, fluency when I do it in public.


Edited by MILLO (11/10/08 10:40 AM)
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#2010589 - 11/10/08 09:30 AM Re: Confidence [Re: terrell]
MILLO Offline
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 Originally Posted By: terrell
I think its more fulfilling when one grasps the concept of and embraces the "journey". It can be pretty disappointing for those that want to "arrive". My $0.02...
You're toally right, as w/ almost anything, it's about the ride and enjoying it...
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#2010598 - 11/10/08 09:36 AM Re: Confidence [Re: MILLO]
Billster Offline
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The journey is a lot more fun when you feel good about it! Sometimes improving your skills feels like pulling teeth.

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#2010599 - 11/10/08 09:39 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
terrell Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Billster
The journey is a lot more fun when you feel good about it! Sometimes improving your skills feels like pulling teeth.


Yeah - If you're ridding on the bus from Laredo to Mexico City with a goat and seven chickens, you may want to take a ciesta...

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#2010626 - 11/10/08 10:31 AM Re: Confidence [Re: MILLO]
Phil W Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MILLO
Phil W said: "The first time I had to play a dozen solos per night (it's a 4 hour gig) I found it pretty hard but soling regularly in public has really advanced my performance."

..and this is what I say:

Man, improvising in public should ideally be the same issue as improvising while jamming or while practicing.


Ideally, yes! In reality I find it very different. I play bass so I never really soloed on a gig more than 3 or 4 a night before. What I found was that it was difficult to maintain the quality of soling in front of an audience at that quantity and keep the audience involved.

I practise a lot at home, but that really wasn't the thing that helped. What helped was playing a lot of solos in front of an audience until it became more of a second nature thing - and also where I could just go with the flow of creation instead of maybe trying too hard.
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#2010634 - 11/10/08 10:45 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
MILLO Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Phil W
I said: Man, improvising in public should ideally be the same issue as improvising while jamming or while practicing.

Phil said: Ideally, yes! In reality I find it very different.

Me too! It's hard as F--!!!!LOL! Yup, in order to feel comfortable improvising in public, one needs to IMPROVISE IN PUBLIC!
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#2010648 - 11/10/08 11:52 AM Re: Confidence [Re: MILLO]
Gifthorse Offline
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I try to stay confident. I am I guess, never think about it. There are some players that are so good that you hear them play and then you don't really 'feel like playing'. That happened to me last year when I was at GC and some guy I know kinda came in and started to play all this super advanced bebop.

Then he handed me the guitar. I was like, "no thanks"

But that doesn't mean if he heard me play he wouldn't be impressed. I can do what I do well. But you know how it is, the grass is always greener.

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#2010683 - 11/10/08 01:31 PM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
miroslav Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Billster
A few weeks ago I had an idea for a tune, and I sat down and played the melody I had in my head, easily grabbed some chords that set the mood I was after, wrote it down and that was that. Head to guitar to paper in 10 minutes.


I'm betting it was an instrumental...? \:\)

Yeah, I'm also working on some new tunes right now..and the melody/chords flow so easy...but then all I have is the lyrics for the chorus (it's like I stepped into the Sahara desert). ;\)

I'm going to go forward and record anyway (usually I like to wait until I have everything)...and hope that the lyrics will be flushed out during the process.

Yeah…I guess you can say I’m pretty confident that I’ll have everything in place by the time the recording is done.

Some days I think about recording nothing but instrumentals for awhile... \:D
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#2010686 - 11/10/08 01:37 PM Re: Confidence [Re: terrell]
miroslav Offline
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 Originally Posted By: terrell


Yeah - If you're ridding on the bus from Laredo to Mexico City with a goat and seven chickens, you may want to take a ciesta...


Heck...if the bus breaks down along the way...all you need is some dry wood for a small fire, and you've got meals-ready-to-eat.

\:\)
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#2010704 - 11/10/08 02:40 PM Re: Confidence [Re: MILLO]
Phil W Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MILLO
 Originally Posted By: Phil W
I said: Man, improvising in public should ideally be the same issue as improvising while jamming or while practicing.

Phil said: Ideally, yes! In reality I find it very different.

Me too! It's hard as F--!!!!LOL! Yup, in order to feel comfortable improvising in public, one needs to IMPROVISE IN PUBLIC!


Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Actually the improvising part I've always done - just not the soloing part. It's a lot of fun though!


Edited by Phil W (11/10/08 02:41 PM)
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#2010716 - 11/10/08 03:19 PM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
picker Online   happy
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If it doesn't sound too, uh, "intangible"(ducks behind chair, waits, peeks out and sees no flyinjg objects, come backs to keyboard) I really don't think much about confidence. The only thing I think when I play, after making sure I'm in the right place on the neck, is "hope I don't screw up!", and then I'm too busy to think.
Believe me, it's not because I figure I know all there is to know, or have hit a "personal best", or something like that. I've just played lousy on nights when I should have played great if practice and desire have anything to do with it, and I've played wonderfully on nights when I should have sounded like a painfully executed gerbil for lack of practice and motivation. When I play these days, it's about feeling whats going on around me and finding a place to fit in that has been covered yet. Beyond that, I let whatever's gonna happen take place.

If that's, like, real zen of something, well, it wasn't by intention...
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#2010864 - 11/11/08 05:04 AM Re: Confidence [Re: picker]
terrell Offline
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That's deep picker...

You crack me up!

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#2010892 - 11/11/08 07:21 AM Re: Confidence [Re: picker]
Billster Offline
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 Originally Posted By: picker
The only thing I think when I play, after making sure I'm in the right place on the neck, is "hope I don't screw up!", and then I'm too busy to think.


I think that's kind of a negative attitude, in that it's defined by a negative (Don't do something...)

I prefer the affirmative method (I will do this, that, the other...)

For instance, discussing the tune I wrote so quickly; I had the general idea for the mood of the piece, and I had been humming the initial melodic idea for some time. I simply decided to sit down with a guitar to play the melody and suss out the chords that would fit the mood I was after. I knew I was going to nail it down - I just didn't expect to nail it down in 10 minutes!

 Originally Posted By: picker
When I play these days, it's about feeling whats going on around me and finding a place to fit in that has been covered yet. Beyond that, I let whatever's gonna happen take place.


That's better. \:\) I still think you could do certain things to put yourself in a place that has a higher percentage chance of good results. Not all of those things are musical knowledge like chords and scales, intangibly speaking. ;\)

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#2010915 - 11/11/08 08:07 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
miroslav Offline
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It all comes with practice...honing your craft.
Sure...you can still toss out a clam or two occasionally, but you will recover quickly and just roll over them, and so they are less noticeable.

Of course...it's different from person to person, especially when you walk out in front of an audience....though that too can be "learned".
The more times you do it, the better you get at it, and then your confidence grows.
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#2010961 - 11/11/08 09:02 AM Re: Confidence [Re: miroslav]
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If any thing, my confidence gets the best of me at times, like tryin' to walk a band onstage through a song I don't know as well as I thought. THAT'S BAD!!! There's no one to reel it back in at that point!

I'm back on my on again, off again Delbert McClinton kick. The material isn't intricate, but the feel is is elusive. Pink Floyd can do that to you as well: the chords line up nice and neat, but the feel can take weeks or months to capture. Didn't mean to veer off topic(don't tell the mod! ;\) )
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#2010963 - 11/11/08 09:04 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
rickygclef Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Billster
 Originally Posted By: picker


I think that's kind of a negative attitude, in that it's defined by a negative (Don't do something...)

I prefer the affirmative method (I will do this, that, the other...)

For instance, discussing the tune I wrote so quickly; I had the general idea for the mood of the piece, and I had been humming the initial melodic idea for some time. I simply decided to sit down with a guitar to play the melody and suss out the chords that would fit the mood I was after. I knew I was going to nail it down - I just didn't expect to nail it down in 10 minutes!

[quote=picker]When I play these days, it's about feeling whats going on around me and finding a place to fit in that has been covered yet. Beyond that, I let whatever's gonna happen take place.


That's better. \:\) I still think you could do certain things to put yourself in a place that has a higher percentage chance of good results. Not all of those things are musical knowledge like chords and scales, intangibly speaking. ;\)


I like that positive approach!

I've changed my own personal tune by following a positive mantra and applying it to my life.
There was a place in my past where I was bogged down by negativity.

The positive reinforcement works especially well with raising kids and seems to help with my overall well being and pursuit of happiness. ;\)

I could dwell on the negative and think I can't shred like a monster or know how to tap or I could think positively and think about the things that I actually can do fairly well. It certainly is good to expand the range of your playing and discover new techniques, but for me if I can concentrate on displaying the things that I do well in performance, my confidence won't be an issue.

I'm a firm believer that the positive attitude goes a long way in achieving positive results. \:\)


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#2011183 - 11/11/08 11:18 PM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
MILLO Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Phil W
 Originally Posted By: MILLO
 Originally Posted By: Phil W
I said: Man, improvising in public should ideally be the same issue as improvising while jamming or while practicing.

Phil said: Ideally, yes! In reality I find it very different.

Me too! It's hard as F--!!!!LOL! Yup, in order to feel comfortable improvising in public, one needs to IMPROVISE IN PUBLIC!


Sorry, I misunderstood your post. Actually the improvising part I've always done - just not the soloing part. It's a lot of fun though!
Yeah, after your post I re-read mine and noticed it was (not surprisingly) very poorly written. I edited it afterwards. Sorry.

Yup, I'm sure you're more experienced at improvising than I am. But yeah, I have to do solos on at least half the tunes my "busiest" project does, and that'd be a strange night. Usuallt it's like AT LEAST TWO THIRDS. I'm not a great improviser so I feel everything starts sounding the same after a while, even though I'm NOT someone who studies licks and too many sequences, etc. I should, though--I feel that contrary to my gut feeling these will free me as opposed to trap me in them, sine anyway I do repeat licks/ideas even though I don't generally practice them, which is ironic and kinda terrible. I need a different approach to systematically STUDY improvisation--and the sad thing is that I have these systematic approaches thought out and in many cases even written down somewhere (either my own ideas or from books, etc.).

I come from a classical background so when it comes to "popular" music the less I memorize note-per-note the better I feel about it, LOL!... but it doesn't really work that way in the long run.


Edited by MILLO (11/12/08 10:07 AM)
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#2011266 - 11/12/08 07:25 AM Re: Confidence [Re: MILLO]
Phil W Offline
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I put together something to help me with my soloing - focussing as much on the dynamics and tonal aspects as the notes. It was a bit of an overthink and I actually needed to think a lot less but it was helpful as a practice tool. I'll try to find the thread and copy some of it here:

It's about jazz but I think a lot is relevant to any style of improvised solo:

Here's the original post from the Lowdown bass forum

 Originally Posted By: me

All of a sudden (with my new regular jazz gigs) I find myself playing about 15 solos a gig and it's fun - but it's making me work. Well I say jazz, but though it's standards, it's mostly funk, samba and soul type rhythms with the odd swing 4/4 for good measure.

What I really notice is that I have to be aware of avoiding making the solos sound too similar - using similar licks or approaches. I noticed half way through he first gig that all my solos were in the top two octaves and I wasn't really utilising the full range for example.

It think that as it's funky music, maybe some of my solos could have been bassline extemporisations rather than the hornlike melodic approach I took.

The experience also helps me develop the architecture and design of solos and how to make them build and not sound too disjointed. I guess I studied for this for many years and now I'm having to get busy applying it.

Luckily the guitar and drums tend to lay down complete grooves under my solos (which I prefer) rather then dropping out - though I guess once or twice in 15 solos would have added variety.

Of course, it's not about thinking. When I get on stage I relax, listen and react (and sometimes pray for inspiration ;\) )
But when I prepare and practice I think through ideas and wanted to write some ideas for varying solos down as a practice tool.

There's a danger in over-thinking music. As John Clayton said, "There is a childlike innocence, a zone we are in when we are playing and really enjoying music. The trend towards 'left-brain' jazz is damaging a lot of players. They use rules; more leading tones, the modal approach, numerical analysis, altered scales. All of these things are good to know, but imagine if the player had the sound under his or skin first and then analysed or discovered that something was a 9/13 chord with a b5 substitution."

I hope that with my years of jazz listening before I ever played it that theory has just given names to sounds I knew. This is a text-based forum however, so rather than exchange hundreds of tiny audiofile examples, here's a list I came up with of ideas for varying and developing solos. (Please add)

Very register
Make sure phrases start at unpredictable points in the bar
Use tonal differences - EQ? but more often hand position/muting etc
Exotic scales
Dynamics
Varying time feel in relation to the beat
Phrase length
Articulation of notes - sliding, vibrato etc. and timbral/tonal shape of notes
Note length
Link to lyrics content and 'emotional' content
Repeated 'climax' type lines (I tend to repeat some of these over 15 solos
Shape of solo
Use of 'pretty' notes - 9, #11, 13
Guide tones
Developing a phrase idea
Slow, melodic or busy
Rhyhmic motifs or melodic motifs changed to fit the harmony
Going outside/inside
Bassline type extemporisations
Pentatonics
Use of space
Study of great soloists
Use of variety of theory based approaches
Call and response
Tension and release
Being aware of the melodic range of phrases and their expansion or contraction
Use of landmark notes
Blues playing (I did notice some of my blues phrasing sounded a little similar - oops)
Playing off rhythm section ideas
Alternating simple and complex
Singing what you play
Breathing like a horn or singer
Prayer ;\)
Bebop approaches
Forward Notion (I never really got quite comfortable with that)
Simple modal phrasing as in Miles' beautiful solo on So What
Quoting or rephrasing the melody

Phew.

Any thoughts?


The thread is here:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads...rue#Post1978440

There were some neat responses
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#2011269 - 11/12/08 07:27 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Phil W]
Phil W Offline
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It is supposed to say 'vary' register
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#2011396 - 11/12/08 11:45 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
picker Online   happy
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 Originally Posted By: Billster
 Originally Posted By: picker
The only thing I think when I play, after making sure I'm in the right place on the neck, is "hope I don't screw up!", and then I'm too busy to think.


I think that's kind of a negative attitude, in that it's defined by a negative (Don't do something...)

I prefer the affirmative method (I will do this, that, the other...)


So...I should say "I WILL screw up!" as a positive statement?

Hmmm.

Not exactly what I was going for there Bill, but an interesting approach, I'll give you that much. And, I can pretty much ALWAYS deliver on it, so I won't be disappointed. Hey, that's turning a negative into a positive! And if anybody comments on my screw-ups, I can honestly say "I MEANT to do that, ya phillistine! Doncha understand anything about affirmative self-expression, ya fruit dip?"

Great idea, Bill, can't wait to try it out...
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#2011397 - 11/12/08 11:45 AM Re: Confidence [Re: Billster]
picker Online   happy
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the dreaded double post, sorry.


Edited by picker (11/12/08 11:46 AM)
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#2011398 - 11/12/08 11:48 AM Re: Confidence [Re: picker]
Billster Offline
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I WILL stop beating my face on this brick wall...

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