#1964661 - 06/30/08 03:43 PM
Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
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Phil B
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For example, a Receptor with Komplete 5 built in versus a Kurzweil PC3X.
I love the PC3X, but for the same price, you could get the Receptor with K5 plus an 88 key controller (e.g., the Yamaha KX88 coming out).
I never trusted soft synths enough to play out live with them, but this is tempting. I have Komplete from a few generations back (Reaktor 5, Absynth 3, B4II, FM7, etc.) and I love 'em. I just never really trusted them.
Can the Receptor be trusted?
Is it the software/hardware integration that makes the Kurzweil and other workstations a better alternative? The sound? Is it no longer the better alternative?
What do you think?
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#1964668 - 06/30/08 04:23 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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Beethree
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I routinely use a Receptor live, running primarily Ivory, Scarbee electric pianos, and B4. There are some hoops to jump through, and some tradeoffs, but I can better any sound on my Nord Stage with the Receptor. I generally use either the Nord or a Yamaha P250 as my primary controller for the Receptor, both for piece of mind, and so that I can be juggling sounds on the Receptor while playing the other keyboard. The Receptor is very trustworthy when it comes to the NI Komplete stuff, with the exception of Akoustic Piano - which I don't have, but have heard mixed reviews on as far as functioning glitch free. If you can swing the money, and are enamoured of the PC3X, using them both would be a tremendous rig.
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#1964695 - 06/30/08 05:47 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Beethree]
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Phil B
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That's not good to hear about Akoustic Piano as I'd probably want to rely on that for ... well ... Acoustic Piano.
Receptor and PC3X would be quite the rig.
How is it moving between sounds on the Receptor? Do you scroll through a list and then hit "load" or something like that? How long does it take to load an Ivory piano, for example?
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#1964706 - 06/30/08 06:48 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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Beethree
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The sounds that take a while to load a the ones that require a large amount of sample RAM to load up. However - there is something called a "snapshot" , which is best described thusly: Picture a DAW mixer with a different VST and effects loaded on each channel. A group of snapshots has all of the same instruments and effects, with different mixer settings. The most basic example would be to have all but one instrument and the associated effects muted on each snapshot. So if you had, say, Ivory on channel one, B4 on channel 2 and Minimonsta on channel three, you could have a group of 3 snapshots, each of which would play one of those sounds, switchable (nearly) instantaneously. THe instruments would not have to reload. THe limitation to this is your sample RAM. But instruments like B4 and minimonsta use none. Ivory, Scarbee electric pianos, etc. do.
Ivory loads relatively quickly, as its disc streaming on Receptor works extraordinarily well. In fact Ivory works better on Receptor than on my Core 2 duo DAW machine. Disc streaming with Kontakt II does not fare as well, so when I use Scarbee electric pianos I use versions that fit completely into RAM. As such - Ivory and Scarbee are mutually exclusive in my snapshots. Depends on the gig.....
Hope this makes sense and is helpful.
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#1964710 - 06/30/08 07:13 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Beethree]
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Phil B
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Makes sense ... and very helpful! Thanks
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#1964773 - 07/01/08 12:31 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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jook
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I believe the big difference between software instruments and hardware workstations is not the technical limitations of the latter and the abundance of memory/CPU of the former.
The big difference is in the way the samples were recorded, and the approach that the sample makers have changed. This includes the audio aesthetics of what people now prefer (more authenticity, realism in hammer noises etc) over what was popular in the 80s, etc.
I think if you strip down a popular large sample library (say Scarbee) to smaller programs (e.g. only 3 or 4 velocity layers) that you can load in your workstation/hardware sampler, the perceived difference in quality (especially live playing) would drop significantly.
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#1964792 - 07/01/08 02:49 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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Synthoid
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Features you won't have in the Receptor vs. a workstation from Korg, Yamaha, or Roland would be: sampling, sequencing, arpeggiators (KARMA in the case of the Korg M3), and a nice color view screen.
Edited by Synthoid (07/01/08 02:50 AM)
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#1964797 - 07/01/08 03:27 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Synthoid]
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Phil B
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Features you won't have in the Receptor vs. a workstation from Korg, Yamaha, or Roland would be: sampling, sequencing, arpeggiators (KARMA in the case of the Korg M3), and a nice color view screen.
I hear you on the sequencing. That may be important to some, but personally it's not important to me.
On the sampling side, you'd have Kontakt. Although not KARMA, you'd have arpeggiators in Reaktor and (I think) Kontakt. Not sure if you can route MIDI between plugins in Receptor though. Right about the screen too, but I was thinking I could pick up a cheap, small LCD on eBay to plug into the Receptor. (Which proves another thing you give up on the Receptor route ... having everything in one box. A Receptor, plus a controller keyboard, plus a monitor vs just the keyboard).
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#1964875 - 07/01/08 06:55 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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b3boy
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I use Receptor live and would not go back to hardware boards. I use Scarbee Ivory VB3 and Kontakt 2 for the bits and bobs. I use it with a Kurzweil SP76 just on the off chance something goes cockahoop I can quickly play the internal sounds while Receptor is restarting, this has never happened since I upgraded to Rev C model.
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#1964880 - 07/01/08 07:01 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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tonysounds
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Receptor is very trustworthy: I've been using mine live for 3 years. You really only need the screen at home (you don't program your synths on the gig, do you?), and when you plug a real monitor up, that certainly trumps the any screen on a Ko/Ro/Yama/Weil board in spades.
Akoustic Piano ran like crap, and frankly, I didn't think sounded all that killer to begin with. Other than Akoustik, everything I've ever installed in there has worked almost flawlessly; Arturia's CS80 was a little buggy, and since they decided not to play ball, they left Muse without the ability to improve/tweak/fix whatever issues might have come up. (Which of course was complete bs on Arturia's part since they made purchasing CS80 for Receptor a real PITA: you had to pay full list price from Plugorama, and then within a month of buying it, they pulled the rug out from underneath any support...I'd never use Arturia for anything after that.)
I have an early version of Receptor, but it is really one of my favorite pieces of gear. Depending on what kind of sounds, etc. you were using, I would be very comfortable using the Receptor with one other piece of sound gear (module or keyboard); the advantage with the PC3x is having just unbelievable orchestral stuff right at your finger tips which I can't imagine being all that improved by using software (yeah, Kurzweil did it that well), and you'd save a lot of CPU flex.
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#1965019 - 07/01/08 12:56 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: tonysounds]
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Synthoid
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You really only need the screen at home (you don't program your synths on the gig, do you?
I often adjust effects and EQ during a gig, yes.
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#1965057 - 07/01/08 01:47 PM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Synthoid]
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tonysounds
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You really only need the screen at home (you don't program your synths on the gig, do you? I often adjust effects and EQ during a gig, yes.
Well, adjusting the FX would just be a matter of assigning those parameters to controllers on your keyboard, and once's that's done at home, you wouldn't need to see what your controller is doing, you'd hear it; as for EQ, the "mixer" on the Receptor doesn't have eq, but I guess you could add a plug-in for that purpose, and then assign those oft-tweaked bands to controllers as well. Again, once the programming is done, the "tweaking" can be done at the gig without needing a monitor/lCD screen.
I know on my Motif, if I was tweaking eqs while playing, I didn't care what position the knob was in, I cared what it sounded like.
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http://www.myspace.com/tonyorant Hitting "play" does not constitute live performance. A90/NordStage/Electro/XK1/Speakeasy AMA RB3c/Receptor/JD990/FantomXr/MotifRack You dont get tone on a diet.
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#1965248 - 07/02/08 01:08 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: Phil B]
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Analogaddict
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Receptor and PC3X would be quite the rig.
Well, that's my rig! Hopefully, I'll be installing K5 on the Receptor next week...
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#1965259 - 07/02/08 03:32 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: tonysounds]
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Beethree
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You really only need the screen at home (you don't program your synths on the gig, do you? I often adjust effects and EQ during a gig, yes. Well, adjusting the FX would just be a matter of assigning those parameters to controllers on your keyboard, and once's that's done at home, you wouldn't need to see what your controller is doing, you'd hear it; as for EQ, the "mixer" on the Receptor doesn't have eq, but I guess you could add a plug-in for that purpose, and then assign those oft-tweaked bands to controllers as well. Again, once the programming is done, the "tweaking" can be done at the gig without needing a monitor/lCD screen. I know on my Motif, if I was tweaking eqs while playing, I didn't care what position the knob was in, I cared what it sounded like. Much as Tony suggests, I use one plug in eq on the master fader of my live Receptor snapshots, and have four bands of that EQ assigned to the front knobs of the physical Receptor, which is generally within reach - although mostly I don't reach for the eq during the gig, only during set up. When you adjust, it displays the values. (Also have a graphic EQ in my rack - but that is adjusting ALL signal going to my speakers, not just the Receptor)
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#1965330 - 07/02/08 07:32 AM
Re: Muse Receptor vs Keyboard Workstation
[Re: tonysounds]
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zahush76
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Arturia's CS80 was a little buggy, and since they decided not to play ball, they left Muse without the ability to improve/tweak/fix whatever issues might have come up. (Which of course was complete bs on Arturia's part since they made purchasing CS80 for Receptor a real PITA: you had to pay full list price from Plugorama, and then within a month of buying it, they pulled the rug out from underneath any support...I'd never use Arturia for anything after that.)
I can only guess this has something to do with their "Origin" thingy.
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/origin/intro.html
They probably want to keep all their soft synths for that (if you're talking about using them live on stage).
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