#1964085 - 06/29/08 08:44 AM
Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
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drawback
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I've been doing a ton of festival gigs during the past 10 days with my Yamaha CP300. One of the cool things about this DP, I thought, is the balanced XLR outputs which go directly to the board. I like to use the onboard speakers on the DP to add a bit to the stage monitoring system - nice to hear the piano in stereo.
However, every sound guy's been telling me the XLR output levels are too hot, and I either have to turn the volume way down on the piano (negating the use of the onboard speakers), or go with the 1/4 inch output jacks to a pair of di's.
At least with the latter, I can turn up my onboard speaker level to a listening volume, but if you can't use the XLR's, what's the point of having them?
I checked online and the manual to see if there was a way to pad the outputs in the DP's software and it's not an option. I could go out and buy a couple of Shure A15 line level attenuators, but again, why should this have to be?
BTW the consoles at most venues have pads but they're not deep enough.
Anyone experienced this issue and found a remedy?
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#1964089 - 06/29/08 08:53 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: drawback]
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wdl
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The pro solution is to spend 100 bucks on a stereo attenuator
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#1964098 - 06/29/08 09:21 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: wdl]
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drawback
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Shure... A Designs.... it's just a little purplexing you'd have to go out and buy this when Yamaha usually has everything else covered. Their onboard XLRs are no good if they're not switchable - and I guess that was my real point (to rant).
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#1964135 - 06/29/08 11:52 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: drawback]
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wdl
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nothing's perfect. and this is a very typical workaround. also it is output gain adjustable, so you can dial in the degree of attenuation
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#1964153 - 06/29/08 12:54 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: wdl]
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Dave Horne
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I would think the sound guy could pad the CP300 at the mixer end. Any quality mixer (actually any mixer with XLR inputs) has a pad\attenuator for the XLR inputs.
My Mackie 1202 has four channels just for mics and they have a pad. Unless I don't understand what's going on, I really don't see a problem. Perhaps the sound guy is the problem?
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#1964179 - 06/29/08 02:33 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: Dave Horne]
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raddtunes
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Perhaps the sound guy is the problem?
Methinks yes.
I've had this exact issue with my previous, and current RD-700's - (SX, now GX). Also had this same issue with the line outs of an amp - my previously owned KC-550. Interesting thing is that it's sometimes a problem with a house PA, and sometimes not.
You can spend the hundred bucks on that attenuator thingie if you'd like, but I'd try diplomacy with the sound staff.
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#1964185 - 06/29/08 03:01 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: raddtunes]
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drawback
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I also was thinking this... however, with the festival gigs in different venues this week, it's been an issue with more than one sound guy (unless they all went to the same sound-guy high school). Some have line attenuators, some pad at the board, some just go d-i through habit.
Anyway, I'll order the ATTY - fix it on my end. Happy sound guys make for a happy band.
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#1964265 - 06/29/08 08:19 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: drawback]
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Dave Horne
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I rethought my answer. I must have been thinking about it in my sleep as I woke up around 4 AM with that on my mind. Ignore my initial post.
I'm guessing that Yamaha uses XLR outputs for really long runs, runs where an unshielded 1/4" cable would most certainly introduce noise and hum. The XLR outputs are, I'm guessing, the same line outputs as a 1/4" but configured for a mic (XLR) cable. For really long runs you'd want a shielded cable and since mic cables are much more commonplace than balanced 1/4" cables, Yamaha offers this XLR output for just this situation.
What you really need is a simple XLR to 1/4" adaptor. You use the long mic cables from the keyboard and use the XLR to 1/4" adaptor at a line level input at the mixer. The mixer would look at the input as a regular 1/4" line in, right? An XLR to 1/4" adaptor probably costs about $10 or so ... and you'd need two for stereo.
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#1964267 - 06/29/08 08:41 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: drawback]
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floyd tatum
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Those CP300 XLR outs are probably +4 dbu, which is considered the "pro" line level, as opposed to -10 dbu consumer line level. The 1/4" outs of a digital piano or synth are usually -10 dbu. But XLR inputs on stage mixers are mostly for microphones - mic level is a lot lower than line level, especially +4 dbu line level. You'd think a pro mixer would be designed to accomodate all of these. But maybe not?
You could connect the CP300 to a d.i. box. Some d.i. boxes have a pad that can lower the input level. But then again, d.i. box inputs are usually 1/4".
Catch 22!
Or use an attenuator like suggested earlier in the thread.
Or here's another one:
Ebtech line level shifter
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#1964555 - 06/30/08 12:43 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: floyd tatum]
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DrpianoSP
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All this sounds like a really strange problem. The XLR output most likely is 4db, quite a bit "hotter" than most jack synth outputs, as was already mentioned, but still itīs a standard, so it would be a strange thing that the FOH console couldnīt handle this. Even a cheap behringer mixer I have has a button for each line in input to switch between 4db and -10db input.
A "popular" misconception is that XLR outputs are for mic inputs, which have completely different levels (as was also mentioned before - looks like I am not really writing anything new here, sorry ....  ).
All in all, I suspect the problem is more on the sound manīs side (or on the consoleīs, if it has very limited adjusting possibilities)...
Hope you get it fixed!
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#1964604 - 06/30/08 01:54 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: DrpianoSP]
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DrpianoSP
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drawback, doesnīt the cp300īs owners manual state a reference output level for the XLR outputs somewhere?
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#1964618 - 06/30/08 02:13 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: DrpianoSP]
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floyd tatum
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The CP300 manual doesn't state the output level of the XLR outs, it just says they're balanced. That's too bad. My preference would be for more detailed info in the manual. People want detailed specs when they go to the manual, why not give it to them?
You could always call a Yamaha service centre and ask.
But at least you could tell those sound guys "hey, this is an XLR connector, but it's line level, it's balanced, and it's hot!" At least they're forewarned.
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#1964619 - 06/30/08 02:19 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: DrpianoSP]
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Dave Horne
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DrpianoSP, I own a CP300 and looked in the manual. On page 89 in the English owner's manual it only gives very general information - nothing specific.
The CP300 also features professional-use balanced XLR connectors for the OUTPUT L/R jacks. This type connector is used in professional studio equipment and installations. That's about it.
Nowhere in the manual are there any numbers given re the XLR outputs. On page 138, Specifications, there is also no specific info given re the XLR outputs.
I have the feeling the sound guy was running the XLR into a mic input and not a typical line input. I'm not an electrical engineer but I'd look first at the sound guy as the source of this issue.
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#1964650 - 06/30/08 03:21 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: Dave Horne]
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SK
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I think the sound guy is the culprit.
So it doesn't have an adjustment for the XLR out puts. One obvious thought: I don't own the CP300... but does it have an adjustable main gain, which would also bring down the levels sent on the XLR's?
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#1964978 - 07/01/08 10:44 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: SK]
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Legatoboy
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I run my CP300 low-level outs into my Tascam 2488 and I have to RAISE the signal pads on the recorder to get a good recordable signal to my liking! Every soundsystem is different.
I'd wait till the next time a sound guy says to you your level's are high and walk with him over to the channel strip at his board and check it out, I'd want to know! Or at least ask him if he has it padded on the direct box(s) (beside the board).
I've gotten in enough trouble for supposedly 'ruining' mixes at big live shows for things I wasn't even aware of or were beyond my control! So I try to be pro-active about that stuff! Always helps to be nice to everyone though in the process!
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#1964983 - 07/01/08 11:12 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: Legatoboy]
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delirium
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my girlfriend is also too hot to handle...
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#1964997 - 07/01/08 12:07 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: delirium]
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Dee-troit B-ball
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+1 on the sound guy. I had the same complaints about the output of Roland VR-760; XLRs too hot. I had the outputs running directly into his onstage snake. I went back to the board with him and sho' nuff the other end of the snake was plugged into a pair of mic inputs. He had the pads on but the +4 signal was still too hot for the mic preamps. I pointed out to him that he had 1/4" TRS line inputs on the same channel - those are the ones we should be using. Since then, I wired up a pair of XLR-F to 1/4" TRS "pigtails" that I carry with me. The pigtails have solved every "too hot" complaint I've had - because the problem was always the same: +4 signal into a mic preamp. I made the pigtails out of parts I had laying around the house, so all it cost me was about 30 minutes time. You can buy 'em pre-made for about 12 bucks. Just make sure you get the TRS adapters not the 1/4"TS with a low to hi Z transformer.
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#1964998 - 07/01/08 12:12 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: drawback]
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DrpianoSP
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delirium, are you sure you are plugging in at the correct level...? 
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#1965002 - 07/01/08 12:19 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: DrpianoSP]
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DrpianoSP
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the 1/4" TRS inputs on many mixers accept balanced line signals. In that case all you need is a cable with XLR female on the boardīs end and a >STEREO< 1/4 TRS-jack on the mixerīs end and you get your signal carried balanced to the line input.
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#1965130 - 07/01/08 04:18 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: DrpianoSP]
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raddtunes
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OT, but since we're talking about outputs - can anyone tell me or speculate on why certain top keyboards - (my RD-700GX, for ex.) do not have at least one extra pair of outputs to isolate patches? In live settings, this would be so appreciated when there is left hand bass.
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#1965156 - 07/01/08 05:18 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: raddtunes]
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Sparky2
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OT, but since we're talking about outputs - can anyone tell me or speculate on why certain top keyboards - (my RD-700GX, for ex.) do not have at least one extra pair of outputs to isolate patches? In live settings, this would be so appreciated when there is left hand bass.
The Kurzweil PC3 has a second stereo set of outs (Aux) that you can send the bass to.
Mark
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#1965173 - 07/01/08 05:59 PM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: Sparky2]
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SK
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raddtunes, maybe you can (internally) pan a patch, like bass, to one speaker, or via a mixer. Also when the keyboard's split, I don't think the bass on the GX is sent through both channels.
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#1968996 - 07/12/08 08:17 AM
Re: Yamaha CP300 XLRs too hot to handle
[Re: delirium]
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Legatoboy
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my girlfriend is also too hot to handle...
stop being silly!
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