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#1962802 - 06/25/08 03:07 PM

Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II

Davo-London
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OK folks here it is, my greatest contribution to science $\:\)$

Scientic comparison of Fender bridge versus Badass II bridge on a 1976 Fender Precision bass. The bass is completely standard with 3 month old DR HiBeam strings. Volume and tone are full on. Recorded via Tascam US-122 onto an Apple ibook G4 using Logic software.

Recordings are made with sound clips X and Y. You have to decide which is the stock Fender bridge.

The sound clip can be found here, it is 6 Mb:
http://www.heathette.com/music/Bridgecontest.mp3

Have fun

Davo

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#1962809 - 06/25/08 03:24 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

Davo-London
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Oh I should mention you have 48 hours to vote.

Davo

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#1962824 - 06/25/08 04:03 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

DavidMPires
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X is the fender one....

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#1962839 - 06/25/08 04:56 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: DavidMPires]

Rocky MacDougall
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I have no idea which one was the Fender bridge but...I was amazed how much difference in tone between the two. I really can't describe the difference but it was obvious to me. I preferred the tone on X, whatever it was. Thanks Davo, the test was excellent.
Rocky

Edited by Rocky MacDougall (06/25/08 04:59 PM)

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#1962848 - 06/25/08 05:31 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Rocky MacDougall]

Paul K
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For sure, one hell of a sexy voice.

I liked X better. Maybe because it appeared louder? The notes just jumped out at you more. I hope it's not just 'cause of the strings being closer to the pickups. And I'm hoping that X is the BAII, simply to keep you from kicking yourself in the ass for paying good money to swap out a perfectly good bridge. 'Specially so 'cause back in the day you did the swap, I'll bet it wasn't a small coin thing.

Peace
Paul K

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#1962863 - 06/25/08 06:17 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Paul K]

cassius
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X was better just because the notes were evenly clear, while some of the notes from Y were a little dampened. The difference was subtle but it was definitely there. X also felt a bit louder.

We'll see if my choice to purchase a Badass was misguided...

Oh I must say Davo, you have a good voice! I felt a bit like I was at the optometrist, too, except it dealt with sound. "Do you like 1, or 2? 3, or 4?"

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#1962881 - 06/25/08 07:02 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: cassius]

DJR_Bos
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Had to vote X as stock Fender. But only after hearing the very last clip -

1. My p-bass is a 76, albeit with a swapped in p-up. AND a non stock bridge. No LQBA, Schaler on mine. And Y seemed a bit familiar.

2. The very last clip is about my favorite tone out of my p-bass. Don't think it was there before I swapped bridges.

And I like like it. Look and all.

So, make me wrong, I'm happy. I still have the original bridge and very little pride on the subject.

Now with crappy camera phone pic.

Edited by DJR_Bos (06/25/08 07:30 PM)

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#1962894 - 06/25/08 07:39 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: DJR_Bos]

Luke73
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Wow - thanks for all of your efforts, and nice playing too Davo

I'm going to eat my hat - I didn't think there'd be much difference, but there was - especially in the first two clips.

I don't know which one's the Fender bridge, but I like X better. Paul K made a good observation - was the action set at the same height above the pickups for both bridges?

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#1962901 - 06/25/08 08:02 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Luke73]

dcr
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I thought the difference was most pronounced on the slap, the first fingerstyle sample, the double-stops, & (to a lesser extent) the palm muting. With slap & fingerstyle, the notes were brighter & had more snarl in the Y clip. The double-stops were clearer in Y, with more separation of notes. And the palm-muted Y seemed to punch through a little more.

Based mainly on the slap & fingerstyle sounds, I'm going to say that Y was the BadAss. It sounded more like my old Geddy Jazz to me than the X did.

I wouldn't venture to say which was better; I don't think it's that sort of difference. But I'm intrigued to see what the differences were. Thanks, Davo!

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#1962939 - 06/25/08 11:09 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: dcr]

Davo-London
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Righto. Plenty of time left to vote. DavidMP good to see you were still up after midnight!

Thanks about your comments. In the name of science I have to say that I'm a little concerned that the differences that you can detect are more about my inability to exactly replicate an identical feel than necessarily the nuances of the bridges. I also never slap nor do I palm mute reggae style. So these sound clips (1 and 5) are liable to have more variation because of my inconsistency.

On the fifth (reggae) sound clip I had an absolute ball. I had no idea that playing that style can be so much fun. I was using a variation of the Sting method, ie playing the notes with my thumb and muting with palm over the bridge.

As for action. I adjusted that so that they were within a 1/64" of each other and so we can eliminate that as a variable. I agree that the recorded volumes were slightly different, which can give a false impression. Sorry about that.

That's it for now.

Oh, and a sexy voice? I thought you meant my playing until I realised you meant my actual voice. You guys!

Davo

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#1962942 - 06/25/08 11:56 PM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

DavidMPires
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The difference on the bridges are there, but it is so subtle, that would lost in a band mix. The X seems to have more attack to it, more clarity, but both bridges sound good and I don't think i'd change one to the other, even more co's the BA is so chunky and doesn't look as good IMHO.

Dave bet you have a job as one of the djs on Magic Radio. (romantic radio for our non uk friends). "mellow magic all night" $\:D$

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#1962946 - 06/26/08 12:22 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: DavidMPires]

Phil W
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I haven't a clue. I've hardly played Fenders. A big tonal difference though for sure. I guess one of them sounds more like a standard Fender tone to my ears so I plumped for that..

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#1962947 - 06/26/08 12:25 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Phil W]

Phil W
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Nice playing too.

Yes, palm muting is a whole lotta fun. I only started using it about 4 or so years ago and now I use it an awful lot - not just on reggae too.

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#1962956 - 06/26/08 01:14 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Phil W]

TimR
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I thought Y seemed to have less sustain and clarity. Much more of an old school sound. My money is on that being the stock Fender.

Davo are you a lecturer on Open University TV?

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#1962961 - 06/26/08 01:52 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: TimR]

Davo-London
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TimR: Davo are you a lecturer on Open University TV?

Davo: Yes, and I have a bushy beard and wear socks and sandals.

Davo

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#1962984 - 06/26/08 04:20 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

NUTT
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I'm blocked at work... I'll have to try tonight when I get home.

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#1962991 - 06/26/08 04:51 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: NUTT]

Davo-London
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Oh that's annoying. I have that problem too. Although this is from my own webspace and so it usually doesn't get blocked in the way that youtube automatically does.

Davo

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#1962992 - 06/26/08 04:53 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

Davo-London
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I'm glad to see we are 6 votes for X and 6 for Y. There's some symmetry and neatness to this.

Conclusive test then?

Davo

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#1962993 - 06/26/08 04:53 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: NUTT]

rizzo9247
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X seemed a tab bit brighter, nothing earth-shattering however. Was the difference worth $90, not really.

Being the skeptical guy I am, I don't think you changed the bridge, and you are trying some sort of placebo experiment $;\)$

-Anthony

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#1962998 - 06/26/08 05:08 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: rizzo9247]

Davo-London
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Yeah, I thought that someone might challenge me and you are quite right to do so. That would be a really mean but illuminating trick. But after 1,760 posts and with personal contact with several members in London, I'm hoping that you will take my word for it that this is NOT a placebo experiment. The photographs from groove machine's thread demonstrate that I have actually changed the bridges over. It's all down to trust of someone you've never meet who lurks in murky world of fora.

I can't bring myself to say forums. Blast. That's done it.

"Trust in me" (Snake from Jungle Book)

Davo

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#1963001 - 06/26/08 05:19 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: rizzo9247]

Tom Capasso
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Thanks for putting that together. It was interesting to hear.

I can't help but think that like many scientific experiments, it led to more questions.

It seemed like all of the "Y" segments were played with less attack. To my ears, that was caused by you playing them some time apart. I'd be curious to know which set you did first, how long between sets (did you stop for the day and record the second set 12 hours later, etc.).

One difference that is more difficult to assess is the palm muting. Where did you hold your palm? I find that when I'm on different basses, the bass/bridge changes my ability to mute like that. Some bridges have screws sticking up, some bodies force your hand into different positions (I know you didn't vary the body). After seeing the pictures of the bass with each bridge, it's clear that they could change the way you mute.

I responded to the snap of the "X" bridge, and voted for that. While I agree that in a large band setting (like mine) some of that difference gets lost, I also feel that I want all of the snap and articulation I can get.

Thanks again!
Tom

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#1963017 - 06/26/08 05:58 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Tom Capasso]

kenfxj
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A few thoughts:

Please don't take this as a knock on your playing Davo (which was beautiful) but I agree with Tom that there seemed to be more attack on X than on Y. If the player had a pre-conceived prejudice to prove the BAII superior (or the opposite) it could, even subconsciously, color their playing. Just something to consider.

I find it interesting that so far nearly everyone heard a difference. I think an interesting poll would be to post the same sound clips (perhaps in a different order this time) and ask which (X or Y) do you think sounds better.

Regardless of my nit-picking, great work and fascinating stuff!

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#1963035 - 06/26/08 06:44 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: kenfxj]

Davo-London
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Don't worry about criticism, we must do that in science $\:\)$

I won't say which but I generally prefer my playing for a certain bridge. I can assure you any playing differences were not intentional. The sound clips were made a day apart. The extra punch you hear could simply be the differences in the recorded volume. In playing the second configuration I was tryng as hard as I could within time limitations to match the mood of the previous recording. This may have put an additional pressure on the second recording, making it less relaxed. But hey, the "I can't tell any difference" vote was from me! That's because you have to vote to view the outcome and I didn't want to prejucice things but I'm worried that this might turn into a placebo affect after all.

I think the most telling clip was the chords. Bearing in mind I was playing Em7 Gmaj7 Am7. Both sounded poor, but one sounded really poor. Ah, but which bridge would that be ...?

Davo

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#1963041 - 06/26/08 06:53 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: kenfxj]

Griffinator
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OK, here we go...

Right up front, I'm assuming you DI'ed into the Tascam. It definitely has that sound about it.

The difference was dramatic - and I agree with Ken and Tom that the playing on "X" was more aggressive than "Y".

I heard some really nice bottom end subharmonics on Y that I didn't hear on X.

I really couldn't tell you which was whic, since I don't own a P, and haven't messed with one in probably 15 years....

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#1963048 - 06/26/08 07:06 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: kenfxj]

kenfxj
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Originally Posted By: kenfxj

a pre-conceived prejudice

From the Department of Redundancy Department?

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#1963069 - 06/26/08 07:52 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: kenfxj]

Davo-London
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Yes, Griffinator DI straight into the Tascam 16 bit resolution.

"The difference was dramatic" - I'm struggling with this. Was there a noticeable difference in sustain? Was there a noticeable difference in note stability or phase effects? Was one bridge clearer or noticeably muddier than the other?

Davo

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#1963076 - 06/26/08 08:03 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: rizzo9247]

Bottom End
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Overall, X sounded fuller and clearer, except on Track 3.

On the last track, Y seemed to have a little more bass.

I can't wait to find out the answers

Nice grooves, too.

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#1963078 - 06/26/08 08:05 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

jeremy c
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Of course I'm listening to an mp3 on computer speakers.

The slap samples sounded the most different, and I couldn't really tell if it was the bass or slightly cleaner technique on X.

There wasn't enough difference between the rest of the samples for me to make a judgment.

Based on this test, I won't be swapping out the bridge on my vintage Jazz bass anytime soon.

By the way, Davo, did you say "samplet"?

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#1963087 - 06/26/08 08:18 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: Davo-London]

Griffinator
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Originally Posted By: Davo-London

Yes, Griffinator DI straight into the Tascam 16 bit resolution.

"The difference was dramatic" - I'm struggling with this. Was there a noticeable difference in sustain? Was there a noticeable difference in note stability or phase effects? Was one bridge clearer or noticeably muddier than the other?

Davo

Mostly you were playing harder on X than Y, but tonality was pretty divergent - X has a very round sound (midrange heavy) where Y sounds more scooped (extreme low and extreme high with less pronounced midrange)

Where the mass of the bridge comes into play here? No idea. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Y was the higher-mass bridge, because of the more broadband sustain, as opposed to X's very concentrated resonant frequencies...

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#1963089 - 06/26/08 08:20 AM

Re: Bridge shootout stock Fender versus Badass II [Re: jeremy c]

Griffinator
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Originally Posted By: jeremy c

Of course I'm listening to an mp3 on computer speakers.

The slap samples sounded the most different, and I couldn't really tell if it was the bass or slightly cleaner technique on X.

Your computer speakers are robbing you of all the subtleties. I've got my computer plugged into an Onkyo TX-80 with a pair of Infinity RS2's wired up. The differences are immense.

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