#1962599 - 06/25/08 09:15 AM
OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
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daviel
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Here is a piece from an interview with George Carlin I came across. May be a little OT, but we have a lot of posts about "selling out", commercialism, etc. I like Carlin's take:
Onion: You mentioned before that you have wide recognition. Like it or not, you're part of mainstream society.
George Carlin: Sure, absolutely. That's one of the interesting and odd things about my own success: It's rooted in a distinctly anti-mainstream point of view and yet, in order for me to project that, I have to put my foot in the stream. I wrote a thing for my web page called "The Big Sellout." A couple of people took issue with my doing a commercial for 10-10-220...
Onion: I was going to ask you about that.
George Carlin: Yeah, well, that will soon be on the web site in a very complete form. There's an explanation of first of all why I would make that decision—and it's always for money, of course, but why money was important to me at that moment. That's on there. And then, secondarily and more important, an examination of this whole idea of selling out. It's uttered and spat at you as if it were an absolute; you did it or you didn't. And this person at home saying it probably has on a Gucci shirt or a McDonald's hat, and he has a telephone and he might even own a little bit of stock, and he has made some adjustments along the way himself. He doesn't live in the woods and eat bark and make his own clothing out of vines. So no one is really pure. There is a continuum, and it's up to each person to decide what decisions are worth making to accommodate yourself to the system in order to do what you want to do. Even Ted Kaczynski, who hated technology, used a typewriter to type his manifesto. He rode buses to go to the Post Office to use a government agency to deliver his bombs, which were also a form of crude technology. So, who's a sellout?
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#1962612 - 06/25/08 09:32 AM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: daviel]
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Kayvon
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That reminds me of a response Tom Morello gave when being questioned about how being on a big label could be hypocritical as they were 'part of the machine'.
From the RATM FAQ;
Isn't being on Epic hypocritical?
I believe Tom says it best:
"A lot of labels contacted us, and lots of them just didn't seem to
understand what we wanted to do. They kept talking about the
message of the music as a gimmick. They were interested in us just
because there was a buzz... They saw us as the latest local rock
band to be hyped. But Epic agreed to everything we asked--and
they've followed through... we never saw a conflict as long as we
maintained creative control. When you live in a capitalistic
society, the currency of the dissemination of information goes
through capitalistic channels. Would Noam Chomsky object to his
works being sold at Barnes & Noble? No, because that's where people
buy their books. We're not interested in preaching to just the
converted. It's great to play abandoned squats run by anarchists,
but it's also great to be able to reach people with a revolutionary
message, people from Granada Hills to Stuttgart."
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#1962715 - 06/25/08 12:51 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: Kayvon]
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suraci
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Thoughtlessly used jargon, like "sell out" and "hypocritical" are as common as they are juvenile, in the naive sense of that word.
We all sell out, and all are hypocrites- the issue may be matter of degree and intent.
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#1962737 - 06/25/08 01:25 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: suraci]
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MikeT156
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Quote by suraci:
"We all sell out, and all are hypocrites- the issue may be matter of degree and intent."
Yep we all sell out. Hypocrites? I don't know, when people ask me what kind of music I play I say "Classic Rock-Shameless covers" It would be very cool to say "I do originals" or "My own stuff". But that would just make me a LIAR. 
Cheers to the sell out crowd, I hope they are also buying! (the beer)
Mike T.
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#1962762 - 06/25/08 02:29 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: MikeT156]
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daviel
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A related remark I have always liked is by a guy named Clancy I. , famous in small circles, who said, "Some people say, Clancy, you talk the talk, but you don't always walk the walk. I say to them, that may be so, but you can thank God I don't walk the way I think!"
_________________________
"It was a beautiful day, the sun beat down.I had the radio on, I was drivin'
The trees went by, me and del were singin a little runaway, I was flyin' "
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#1962769 - 06/25/08 02:47 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: daviel]
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d
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Not sure how the UnaBomber sold out, since he made no profit...although the confused end-results of his theories--->actions gives us some pause as to how to procede with ideas...
I'd suggest that we might consider this: George Carlin & Richard Pryor were the not-so-balanced ends of the same polarity...one over-intellectual & the other over-emotional. How you fit the UB in there is merely a game.
Edited by d (06/25/08 02:48 PM)
Edit Reason: typos
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#1962818 - 06/25/08 04:42 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: d]
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suraci
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Which one be over intellectual?? They were both very emotional
they also both messed with drugs, with Pryor in that lead.
Two of my all time favorites
In terms of style- Carlin's style was about words- words roughly equates to intellect
but they were both emotional guys to put it mildly
Sell out is a 60's bs half understood expression.
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#1963626 - 06/27/08 10:35 AM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: suraci]
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d
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Maybe you're right but Carlin had more of a tendency to explain whereas Pryor presented & let that stand on its own.
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#1963643 - 06/27/08 11:22 AM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: d]
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suraci
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OK, fine, i see your distinction.
Why the mention of their names in the same breath as Teddy the loser?
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#1963663 - 06/27/08 12:04 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: suraci]
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d
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Daviel started by mentioning Carlin regarding some comments on "selling out" [to me, an example of GC's tendency to explain/intellectualize]...I guess I just wanted to make that point & contrast it with Pryor. I always considered those two quite similar.
Despite the thread title, Ted K is not the real focus here, is he?
As far as selling out, etc., to me the big dichotomy these days (perhaps there's always been something like this going on) is the economic pressures that drive people to purchase products from sources that they often wouldn't, except for the comparative low cost...an action that in fact contributes to the further empowerment of those non-preferred sources.
In our Tom Friedman-esque "flat world" we're getting flattened more every day.
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#1963678 - 06/27/08 12:36 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: d]
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suraci
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OK thanks, I forgot that George started out using the over used 60's term "sell out".
I like Carlin, always did, but I differ to an extent with that term.
He adds maturity when says there is a continuum.... in regard to degrees of "selling out". I just don't like the judgmental tone of "sell out". I actually deeply dislike it, and what it implies about us as a people.
Carlin used words to be insightful, magnetic and funny, sell out serves this purpose- though he may well have been sincere in his use of it.
As far as hypocrisy.. that is very related. eg. If I "sell out" I am probably a hypocrite.
But since "selling out" is on a continuum, so is hypocrisy.
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The difference between what the most and the least learned people know is inexpressibly trivial in relation to that which is unknown
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#1963710 - 06/27/08 01:49 PM
Re: OT ? Was the Unibomber selling out ?
[Re: suraci]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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I like the Morello quote. He's not exactly a typical dumb rock musician... he graduated from Harvard in 1986 with an honors degree in political science.
I've met him on a couple of occasions and whether you agree with his political leanings or not, he's a brilliant guy and a great conversationalist.
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