#1958920 - 06/17/08 11:45 AM
Metal Bass
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The Pot
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Recently I have been playing with a friend who plays guitar and all he does is these fast freaking metal riffs usually with a droning E or D and I can't come up with anything to play behind him. I am use to standard tuning for one and usually play funk to moderately fast rock stuff. What can I do that won't sound horrible other than playing the droning E and D notes to keep time. There is no room for fills and he moves around so much I can't really do chord tones.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1958978 - 06/17/08 01:19 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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Lowtones11
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy That's a good thing to keep in mind. It sounds llike there is nothing musical happening with you and your buddy.
Unless you are gaining something from your time with this guitarist, don't play with him anymore.
I try to fit myself into situations all the time that are not right for me. I will do it gladly if I can learn and grow musically, or, as a last resort, if the money is right.
I've been in situations where I've been friendly with musicians that have wanted to jam. Outside of being friends with these particular players, we had nothing in common, especially musically. They tried to get me to fit into their world which didn't work. I tried to get them to fit into my world, no luck. It was only a matter of time before we were all frustrated and stopped playing together.
Do you think you can learn something from your time with your friend? Do you think if you asked him to leave you some space, he would be willing and able? Do you think it could lead to gigs by playing with him? Do you think you will improve by playing with him? When you really look at this situation, are you happy to be playing with him?
Just a couple thoughts.
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#1959373 - 06/18/08 07:32 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Lowtones11]
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yourlord
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If this is just a jam session with no format or formal songs to work on, just 2 guys getting together to randomly play stuff, and he's trying to hit every note on every string, then he's just trying to show off and not really interested in making some music with you. That's not what you do when 2 people are not on the same page musically. There's no way for you to play "with" him in that scenario any more than if you just went off on a tangent and expected him to have a clue what notes you're going to play next.
If you are getting together to play known material, then you know what key the song is in and what the changes are, and using that you can build a great harmony around his line.
A LOT of metal bass out there is just pounding out root notes. If that's your goal, you just need to know what key he's playing in and bang root notes. You don't even need to hit every note he does, or even on every stroke he makes. That variety of metal bass is more about holding the root of the melody and providing a pulse to the music. I'm not a big fan of this type of metal bass though.
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#1959376 - 06/18/08 07:38 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: yourlord]
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The Pot
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That's not my style. I am all about less is more and adding to a song by using root notes, but I dont want to do a gallop on E or D for 5 minutes while he flys all over the place with no build or direction in mind.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1959476 - 06/18/08 10:46 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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mondoray
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what about recording your session on a minidisc or something?
play it back when you get home , and if audible you could
decipher what's goin' on and add mini fills or something to beef it up.
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#1959504 - 06/18/08 11:44 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: mondoray]
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The Pot
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It's not worth it. His playing is way to busy. any type of fill would make it seem cluttered. He is probably just better of doing a solo thing. I would probably be happier finding someone else and doing ambient type rock or some funk stuff.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1959642 - 06/18/08 03:57 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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theTragicRich
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By all over the place, do you mean he is doing solos and fills all the time? Or is the rhythm of the song just that busy?
How much does he pay attention to what you play? If he doesn't care, then do whatever you want. There are metal bands out there with fretless players, slap/pop, both, and the all over the place virtuoso type players as well (whose bass lines might not match the guitars at all).
Don't forget, just because the pulse is pounding 8th notes, that doesn't mean you can't add some funk, lay down a groove, or have to stick to root and V (5) patterns. Add some color with passing notes and chromatic phrases (but this you probably already know).
At the very least, you can have fun with it/him. If he doesn't like what you're doing, then you move on. You're not really losing anything, he is losing a bass player, and I'd guess more people along the way as no one wants to play with a ham. Just my two cents.
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#1959645 - 06/18/08 04:06 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: theTragicRich]
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Griffinator
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Really not much to discuss here.
The last 5 guitarists I played with like this all wound up in my rearview. I got no time for a cock-rocker.
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#1959646 - 06/18/08 04:08 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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Griffinator
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*clarification
By "cock-rocker" I mean someone who sits in their bedroom thinking up cool riffs to make everyone go "gee whiz you're good" when they play them, but really have no idea what they're playing, nor do they care if they're playing by themselves or with a group.
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#1959661 - 06/18/08 04:53 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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Bottom End
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I love listening to 70's and '80's metal, but hated playing most of it. "Eighth Notes, in E, repeat until finished"
Set up some kind of hard and fast groove and let the dude solo over it, and if he can't work with you, adios! Life's too short to spend any time doing soemthing you don't enjoy.
Edited by Bottom End (06/18/08 04:54 PM)
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Guitar solos only last about 30 seconds, the bass line goes on for the whole song.
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#1959674 - 06/18/08 06:25 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Bottom End]
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theTragicRich
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LOL @ Griff. Don't think I've heard it put so spot on before. 
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#1960548 - 06/20/08 08:36 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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The Pot
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Yea now the hard part... How do you tell someone they are a "cock-rocker" and that you'll be looking fo another guitar player?
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1960561 - 06/20/08 09:05 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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Griffinator
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You don't have to include the "cock-rocker" part - just say "hey, man, I'm just not feeling your vibe."
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#1960563 - 06/20/08 09:14 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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yourlord
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"Dude, we need to talk.. You see, you suck.. In a serious way. I'd rather have bamboo stakes pounded into random orifices than attempt to play another single note with you. Go masturbate with your guitar in the corner some more. When you're ready to make music with other people instead of trying to have a wood swinging contest, (by the way, my bass is BIGGER than your guitar!) come back and we'll try again."
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#1960567 - 06/20/08 09:27 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: yourlord]
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The Pot
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"Dude, we need to talk.. You see, you suck.. In a serious way. I'd rather have bamboo stakes pounded into random orifices than attempt to play another single note with you. Go masturbate with your guitar in the corner some more. When you're ready to make music with other people instead of trying to have a wood swinging contest, (by the way, my bass is BIGGER than your guitar!) come back and we'll try again."
Brilliant! Mind if I use that word for word?
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1960568 - 06/20/08 09:28 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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yourlord
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Go for it!
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#1960570 - 06/20/08 09:34 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: yourlord]
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jeremy c
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Next time you hear the guy play, just say,
"that was great. it almost sounded like music."
I like to tell someone after a jazz solo,
"good job, I could really hear what you were trying to say."
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#1960571 - 06/20/08 09:42 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: jeremy c]
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The Pot
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It's probably not a good idea to totally bash the guy. Considering he works with me. But, I'll find a way to get rid of him.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1960574 - 06/20/08 09:46 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: yourlord]
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Yourup
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I absolutely agree with Lowtones (above).
It seems that your guitar player needs to mature musically and listen to the song that's being produced and not just his ego.
Just because a player is able to pull off 32nd notes at 120 b.p.m. doesn't mean they should spend the whole song playing them. The listener gets bored of listening to it sooner than later, because it just saturates their ears.
Contrasts really make things stand out in music and if you really want to do some serious work as a musician, you need someone who is like-minded and leaves room for you to put in your two cents worth, too.
...and yes, I absolutely agree with the quote in your signature, Pot.
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#1960588 - 06/20/08 10:05 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Yourup]
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The Pot
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I've tried explaining that to him. Even when he does slow down its like for one measure then he is back to 100 mph. It's so freaking frustrating. I've tried explaining less is more but he says he gets "bored". More guitar players should play bass so they understand Grooving is.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1960608 - 06/20/08 10:31 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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CMDN
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This dude sounds pretty inexperienced. I'm guessing he hasn't jammed with other musicians very often.
You really have a few options here:
1. You could try to change him into the kind of guitarist you'd like him to be. Most folks don't appreciate this kind of thing, though. But you never know.
2. You could try to work with him and come up with some kind of compromise in the stuff you want to play. There is actually a precedent for super-fast metal tunes with a groove (and Mr. Loy was kind enough to point out the late, great Dimebag), but that requires a great sense of feel and killer rhythm chops... and it sounds like this dude doesn't have those qualities.
3. Tell him you don't wanna jam with him anymore because you have different musical goals.
With all due respect to some of the other respondents, I don't think it's necessary to be nasty or insulting to this dude. Just because you're not feeling his style doesn't mean he deserves to be treated poorly. There are a lot of diplomatic ways to tell someone that you don't think you're compatible. You might consider using one of those.
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Erik
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#1960616 - 06/20/08 10:37 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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yourlord
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I figured my post was obviously intended to be humorous.. I would hope he wouldn't talk to the guy like that..
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#1960627 - 06/20/08 10:47 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Bottom End]
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Griffinator
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I love listening to 70's and '80's metal, but hated playing most of it. "Eighth Notes, in E, repeat until finished"
"Another Thing Coming" anyone? (Well, that was F# - which was even more annoying...)
I get revenge on the guitarists in my cover band by employing my fifth string during the chorus. When the huge low D, B, and C# come roaring from the bass cabs over top of "If you think I'll sit around..." - it's glorious.
Edited by Griffinator (06/20/08 10:56 AM)
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#1960628 - 06/20/08 10:50 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: yourlord]
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jcdlc72
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I suggest we take the guy and chain him to a pole, then we can start the whipping as one of us prepare the firewood at the feet. Then, after reading the ritual words we'll ignite the fire and bring the nasty girls to tease and spit on him as the wood starts to burn and then we'll chant and dance in circles until the fire gets...
...ooops, wrong forum, hahahaha!! 
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#1960650 - 06/20/08 11:15 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: CMDN]
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The Pot
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With all due respect to some of the other respondents, I don't think it's necessary to be nasty or insulting to this dude. Just because you're not feeling his style doesn't mean he deserves to be treated poorly. There are a lot of diplomatic ways to tell someone that you don't think you're compatible. You might consider using one of those.
I didn't plan on being blatantly rude, but I do think its pretty funny going over some of those scenarios in my head. But I will be nice and let him down easy. Even though I would have more fun clubbing baby seals than playing with this guy.
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"Music is the space between the notes." -Claude Debussy
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#1960657 - 06/20/08 11:31 AM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: The Pot]
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Griffinator
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Even though I would have more fun clubbing baby seals than playing with this guy.
...with a lead (LEEEEEEAD)...filled...(LEAD FILLED)...a lead filled snowshoe... (SNOW SHOEEEEE) ...he said peek-a-boo... (PEEK-A-BOOOOO)
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#1960719 - 06/20/08 01:21 PM
Re: Metal Bass
[Re: Griffinator]
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CMDN
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You're a peek-a-boo.
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Erik
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