#1951320 - 06/01/08 09:03 AM
Comfort zones...and thin ice...
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miroslav
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Comfort zones…I think we all have them when we play.
The subconscious repetitions of well-worn licks and patterns…the go-to amp/guitar setups that give us the most singing/pleasurable tones…or even the song choices we make that highlight that with which we are comfortable.
So is it more rewarding to kinda’ “float” in those comfort zones, knowing that everything will sound/feel as expected, and being able to always “nail it”…
…or do greater rewards come from risk-taking, from going-for-it…even at the risk of a major crash?
What are some of the ways that you can breakaway from the well-worn approaches, and step out onto the thin ice of discovery…?
Sure…you can always just sit down and learn some new licks…some new songs...etc…but at that point, when it’s well-learned, it again becomes a comfort zone to a degree.
I guess much of this would relate more toward improvisational playing…free-form jamming…rather than just “learning songs”. There must be good and bad ways to step out…to try something new...?
I find myself doing it…staying in my comfort zones…but then every once in awhile when I am feeling real good and just jamming away…it’s like some force takes over for a few moments and it leads me down some new path, and I find myself playing totally cool stuff with a fresh approach. But then after awhile, that muse disappears and I fall back into my comfort zone....though I often manage to retain most of the new ideas that popped up out of nowhere during the brief !EUREKA!...and I then add them to my skill set.
So I’m wondering…what approaches people use to coax out the new/interesting stuff on a regular basis…?
I also wonder about many of the real great players…
When they are playing…is most of it very well-known, well-rehearsed stuff…or do they also drift off down brand new paths right there, on the spot, during a live performance…?
I guess only the players themselves will know what they are doing at any moment...how much of it is comfort zone stuff and how much is pure "thin-ice discovery".
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1951329 - 06/01/08 09:31 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Strategery]
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Rampdog
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Not that it's very noticable, but I like to play a solo with the amp set clean... It may not sound right but it forces me to play each and every note correctly AND change up the feel a bit... I find that at times I rely on distortion or delay or chorus to cover up mistakes/lazyness... Not sure if that makes sense but it leaves me nothing to hide behind...
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#1951331 - 06/01/08 09:33 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Strategery]
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Bluesape
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I'm certainly most comfortable with fast blues licks, but improv is something I try to do often. Oddly enough, playing slowly is now foreign to me and requires real effort. I love learning new patterns and progressions, but need to bone up on some.
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#1951349 - 06/01/08 10:00 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Bluesape]
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Greg B.
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Since my band does pretty much only originals, I am constantly pushing my comfort zone. Our last show that we played, we had about 3 or 4 songs that we had just barely completed and had only played about 5 or 6 times each. We had to write notes down on our set list to help remember things like how the song starts, chord progressions, how many times to do the intro, etc. On only a few of our songs I have a semi-worked out solo, the rest I just go for it. I rarely play the same thing twice, even on the solos that I have semi-worked out. I've never been able to copy a solo note-for-note. As long as I know what key its in, I'm good to go.
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Avoid playing the amplifier at a volume setting high enough to produce a distorted sound through the speaker-Fender Guitar Course-1966 http://www.myspace.com/tentcityallstars1
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#1951357 - 06/01/08 10:13 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Bluesape]
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Zephyr
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i love to experiment almost mindlessly, it really helps to expand. Of course when a certain song dictates a certain style, it'll affect my comfort zone.
So I’m wondering…what approaches people use to coax out the new/interesting stuff on a regular basis…?
I guess the only real way (for me) to expand on it is to just mess around and use wide intervals of notes and stream them together or create new chords. Basically, any time you get the urge to play a familar lick, play it and change a note or two. It's hard to explain, but for me, try to do as little thinking as possible.
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#1951364 - 06/01/08 10:22 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Bluesape]
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Dave da Dude
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I'm certainly most comfortable with fast blues licks, but improv is something I try to do often. Oddly enough, playing slowly is now foreign to me and requires real effort. I love learning new patterns and progressions, but need to bone up on some.
I'm just the opposite. I learned, and my comfort zone is, Folk and Folk Rock. I always drift back into that style if I don't watch myself.
I have "moved on" and now "play" some other styles. The most foreign to me being the rythm guitar on "Magic Carpet Ride" by Steppenwolf... a very fast staccato rythym style that took me a long time to figure out from the sheet music, finally resorting to listening to the record (big ole' round vinyl thing that they used to record songs onto).
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One step at a time... burp... GAS... burp... GAS...
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#1951372 - 06/01/08 10:33 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Dave da Dude]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I don;t see much new stuff from improv players. Wherre I see new stuff is from structured players who are challenging themselves and find something that is hard for them to play, and force themselves to learn to play it.
In fact, I've been previewing the future Muriel Andersons All Star Guitar Night video, and it strikes me that the acoustic players are strectching the boundaries, while the electric players are recycling the same old tired riffs... brilliant and difficult, but still the SOS, compared to what the aocustic guys are doing. (I certainly cannot play anywhere near as well, no matter the riffs, I'm making a point about pushing the boundaries and expectations.... with electric guitar, nobody seems to mind if they recognise the stock riff, so long as you play it either well or blasingly fast, preferably both. The acoustic guys are blowing minds with the tuings and approches and complex structures.)
Bill
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#1951376 - 06/01/08 10:49 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Dave da Dude
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Some of the simplest things to actually play, are difficult to write... notate.
Specifically I'm thinking of a little rythym intro riff from "Eve of Destruction" (Folk-Rock) by Barry McQuire, I think (one hit wonder).
It's an open D chord with the pinky dropped to the hi E on the 3rd fret, then pulled off and the middle finger pulled off the hi E where it was on the 2nd fret... all with a stutter rythym stroke that's hard to describe (a loose wrist with a "mellow" style). I'm only fakin' it, but it's something like that. It's subtle, doesn't sound like much or is difficult to play. But I don't know how the hell to notate it.
PS: The first move is of course an alternative D7 (I think) and the second I think I looked up one time and found to be a D sus 4th or something like that.
Edited by Dave da Dude (06/01/08 10:50 AM)
Edit Reason: add PS
_________________________
Gotta' geetar... need an amp.
One step at a time... burp... GAS... burp... GAS...
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#1951377 - 06/01/08 10:50 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Zephyr]
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splitting hare
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Improv has always been kind of a weak area of mine. Most of my solos are somewhat calculated out - perhaps not always note-for-note, but I will generally have key phrases that will kind of anchor things down while I explore and try to get out of that comfort zone. But I do get a certain satisfaction for creating a solo that becomes a signature part of a song. And even if I do play it note for note all the time, I will still get a satisfacton from that.
Now, for example - my present band is covering 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers. This is a great song to improv to and after hearing a live recording we did of it not too long ago I was like, "well some decent playing there but, crap! I repeated the same lick like 3 or 4 times during the 3 minutes of soloing!" Which is one of my habits when improvising. Also, there are times I am thinking about what I am doing and where I am going next - and like Zephyr mentioned, there are times I am not thinking at all and my hands seem to be playing notes all on their own! 
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#1951395 - 06/01/08 11:23 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: splitting hare]
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miroslav
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When doing well-known songs...there is usually a certain/specific starting point for the lead guitar part. I find that if I intentionally start from some completely different position on the neck, and also change up the rhythmic phrasing that I normally used in that song's licks, it CAN take me to new places/new ideas.
One other area that I try to explore is the tones/textures I'm using. Rather than just focusing on playing notes perfectly, you can introduce a lot of “freshness” to old licks by working the tonal envelopes and making the same notes...sound different.
I was watching the movie "Immortal Beloved" the other day...which is about the life of Beethoven, played by Gary Oldman.
And at one point he is giving a piano lesson, and the pupil makes a mistake and stops playing because of the mistake.
He angrily says to her (paraphrasing here): "Making a mistake is not a bad thing...but playing without passing/emotion is inexcusable!"
It really drove home the point of playing with commitment/feeling…as opposed to mechanically twiddling off perfect, well-known licks.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1951398 - 06/01/08 11:31 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Dave da Dude]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Take some types of chords, and chord-changes, that you aren't used to playing or playing over, and find a variety of chord-fingerings up and down the fretboard; play 'em, record or loop 'em, and then play over 'em.
If you have drum-machine or loops or the like, try a style and sound that you NEVER use and work with that for a while. Play some of your stock changes and licks, but forced to be changed rhythmically to fit with the different beats and tempos. Record or loop the results, and again, find fills licks and solos that fit over 'em.
Try an open or alternate tuning that you are unfamiliar with.
Jam and collaborate with somebody that's more or less new to you, and coming from a COMPLETELY different direction than you usually do.
Listen closely to film scores and the like, "classical" music, Jazz that DOESN'T include guitars, and try to suss-out changes and passages and phrasing from it.
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#1951492 - 06/01/08 04:36 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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Zephyr
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Oh, alternate tunings are a great "rut-buster" too!
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#1951495 - 06/01/08 04:46 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Zephyr]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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Stop me if I've said this before, but one great improv training tool is to play along with the television.
You get a huge supply of ever changing music (films, commercials, cartoons, music videos and so on) and, especially with the commercials, you get about thirty seconds to work out the key and come up with something coherent. It's like shooting skeet, you only have those few seconds to wing the target.
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#1951537 - 06/01/08 06:36 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Another thing is, you might give it a rest for a while, take a break from it; do other things. Let your life and experiences filter through your being and gradually inspire your muse; wait, and then just let the music come to you.
Stop me if I've said this before, but one great improv training tool is to play along with the television. You get a huge supply of ever changing music (films, commercials, cartoons, music videos and so on) and, especially with the commercials, you get about thirty seconds to work out the key and come up with something coherent. It's like shooting skeet, you only have those few seconds to wing the target.
You've said it before- but I won't stop ya. You're right!
The Weather Channel is good for that.
_________________________
~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951554 - 06/01/08 07:14 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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There's some English guitarist, I forget his name, but he's pretty old and artsy... he came up with soundtrack music for a football game. I'd be curious to hear what that's like. I never caught which game he wrote it for, though.
Anyone know who I'm talking about?
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#1951697 - 06/02/08 05:21 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Billster
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Wide intervals. Get away from scale patterns.
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#1951709 - 06/02/08 05:56 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Billster]
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Eric Iverson
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My main project at present is to play strictly fingerstyle for a while. I've known the basics of it for years, but need to take it to the next level.
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#1951750 - 06/02/08 07:24 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Eric Iverson]
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guitarzan
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my comfort zone is not licks but rather looking for neat melodies and such in cool chord progressions. i prefer not to play over a simple repeated chord riff. i sort of feed off of chords. though i do like occasionally freaking out with skwonky noises and such to a cool groove. i need to dig the music to really come out of my shell so to speak.
i have never really practiced licks enough to get a library to borrow from. i really dig octaves. i am up for anything and tend to play differently with different people because i sort of try to feed off of the differences of others.
i am on thin ice alot but not by preference only because i don't gather licks.
i love riffing more anyway. and i like locking into a beat and F'ing with it.
i tend to think of the chord tones and try to pick cool signature sounding stuff. i tend to try to write as opposed to weedle about, even though i am not above that. i guess i am sort of a seeker.
an example is i have a progression i am trying to work into a song, it is E5, E5+ ( which i sort of view as C with a E on the bass), B/D and B with an open E pedal underneath. when i look at it i try to stick with E as the focal point of any runs until i hit the B which i then accent the E flat. it sounds cool dropping half a step even though the B chord is the 5th of E. i dig stuff like that. keep in mind i DO realize that diads are not chords.
what it sounds like is what drives me, i get bored practicing licks that have no chordal movement.
but i do dig rippin players, to those i offer a foundation.
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#1951754 - 06/02/08 07:30 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Greg B.
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Stop me if I've said this before, but one great improv training tool is to play along with the television. You get a huge supply of ever changing music (films, commercials, cartoons, music videos and so on) and, especially with the commercials, you get about thirty seconds to work out the key and come up with something coherent. It's like shooting skeet, you only have those few seconds to wing the target.
Even if you have said it before, it bears repeating. I've been doing that for quite a while and I find it really helps to develop the ear. 
_________________________
Avoid playing the amplifier at a volume setting high enough to produce a distorted sound through the speaker-Fender Guitar Course-1966 http://www.myspace.com/tentcityallstars1
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#1951771 - 06/02/08 07:52 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Greg B.]
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guitarzan
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between TV and the kids playing Video game there is tons of stuff to "jam" on when wandering about the house with a guitar strapped on.
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#1951919 - 06/02/08 10:48 AM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: guitarzan]
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BillyBob69
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When it is appropriate I like to improv with different modes of a scale that I don't use often in order to become more comfortable with how a different mode adds a completely different color to a solo and song overall.
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#1952014 - 06/02/08 01:38 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Rampdog
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There's some English guitarist, I forget his name, but he's pretty old and artsy... he came up with soundtrack music for a football game. I'd be curious to hear what that's like. I never caught which game he wrote it for, though.
Anyone know who I'm talking about?
Hank Williams Jr. ??? "Are you ready for some Football"....
Oh wait... you're probably not talking about REAL football are ya' Vince??? 
_________________________
I play in the 'Key' of 'Fun'......
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#1952054 - 06/02/08 02:44 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Billster]
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Hardtail
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Wide intervals. Get away from scale patterns.
Yes!
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#1952070 - 06/02/08 03:03 PM
Re: Comfort zones...and thin ice...
[Re: Hardtail]
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guitarzan
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i have intervals in between drinks of Guinness.
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