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#1951051 - 05/31/08 02:11 PM Your favorite PAF-like P.up
alfonso
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Registered: 11/06/00
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I have a Les Paul Classic that i bought from the widow of a dear friend of mine, the original owner, who sadly passed away last year. I bought it both to help this lady, who also is a friend, and to have something that he expressed he wanted me to have, although for free. I decided to pay for it a market price, helping his wife gave me a positive feeling.

The fact is that this guitar has got ceramic pickups that i really hate, figure that my guitar of choice is a strat with single coils...
Anyway, I thought to have some PAFs in it, it makes sense to have it with humbuckers anyway and I'm looking for something really good sounding.
I've heard some really very nice sound demos of Bare Knuckle pick ups, the "Mule" has particularly impressed me, especially the amazing touch response and the punch, practically absent in the stock ceramic Gibson ones.

Considerations? Experiences? Suggestions? Other brands?

Thanks \:\)

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#1951087 - 05/31/08 04:39 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: alfonso]
Bluesape Moderator
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When in doubt, Seymour is the reliable choice, and he can even be reached on the phone at times to discuss optimal choices. Not sure that's a benefit from Italy.....

Then again, I believer EVH collaborated with DiMarzio when he was designing the Ernie Ball axe.


Edited by Bluesape (05/31/08 04:42 PM)
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#1951132 - 05/31/08 07:16 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Bluesape]
Caevan O'Shite
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I happen to have a '96 Les Paul Classic Premium-Plus with the stock ceramic 496R and 500T pickups; I, and many other LP Classic players, have found that very nice tones can be gotten out of those pickups with a little set-up tweaking...

Before you spend money and time on new pickups, try adjusting the pickups like so (here're some quotes from a thread concerning LP Classics on the "Sunburst Pub" on The Les Paul Forum):

 Originally Posted By: SFW- "Finally beat the Classic into submission"- Sunburst Pub/The Les Paul Forum
"So recently I had been considering a pup swap. I was not happy with the 496R/500T combination in my Les Paul Classic. Last night in a last ditch effort to try to get the tone I was after- I broke out the flat head and started turning pole pieces. BINGO! After some minor adjustment I was able to get the exact tone I had been looking for- tight and articulate, fat and punchy. I adjusted the poles on the 496R to match the string radius, giving this pickup a more bell like tone…somewhere between bucker and single-coil. Finally the clean tone I’ve been dying to get out of my Lester! The 500T took a bit longer to beat into submission. :bonk After a lot of screw turning, I was finally able to get a tight and articulate tone from it. I ended up dropping the bass side of the pup and raising the poles on that side as well. It resulted in clearing up the mud and giving me a fat punchy tone. The middle position now sounds balanced and full. All three positions are now more that usable, they actually sound great no matter where the toggle is at. I’m very excited with the results and wanted to share. I didn’t think I was going to be able to salvage these pups, but now they perform exactly the way I wanted them to. The Lester sounds damn good now."


 Originally Posted By: Trans-Am "Finally beat the Classic into submission"- Sunburst Pub/The Les Paul Forum
"Congrats SFW !! That is the secret with 'em Classics. You just gotta tweak it and you will come across the sweet spot.I've done this trick when i first got my Classic 6 years ago and havent changed the pups yet,for i see no reason.I though of giving it a chance to grow and did all this tweaking and havent looked back ever since.It's all stock still.A lot players tend to do thid with their axe.Swapping it before giving it a chance to grow on you.It's what a Classic should sound like,therefore being different from others.Right On !!! Hope your happy."


 Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite- "Finally beat the Classic into submission"- Sunburst Pub/The Les Paul Forum
"Hey, that's too cool! I did nearly exactly same thing with the stock 496R and 500T pickups in my '96 Classic, they are tweaked very similarly to the way you describe.

I also spent some time resetting the heights of the polepieces, winding up with a stagger very similar to that of the poles on '50s Fender Strat pickups. I raised the 6th/Low-E pole to nearly double the usual height, lowered the 1st/High-E to nearly flush, raised the whole pickup till they just touched the Es, and adjusted the middle-four poles to just touch their respective strings. Then I lowered the pickup back down to what seemed a normal height, and further adjusted the middle-four poles by ear till there was a perceived balance between all six strings. I did pretty much the same for both pickups.

The bezel for the neck-pickup on mine was apparently cut at too shallow an angle, so that the "slug-coil" of the neck-p'up is farther below the strings, and the "screw-coil" is closer to them, than usual. I once compensated for this by carefully bending the brackets on either side of the pickup, where the height-adjusting mounting-screws thread. After I spent a little time playing it with the neck-pickup's coils quite equally parallel with the strings, I wasted no time in changing it back to the way it had been before!

The polepiece-tweaking, along with the shallow angle of the neck-pickup beneath the strings, resulted in a nice, almost Strat-like sound and punchy attack when using the neck-p'up. Big bell-tone on steroids! Sounds great clean, overdriven, or heavily distorted, single-notes or chords.

The bridge-pickup has plenty of bite, but not too bright, certainly not tinny or screechy at all. Enough attack and stringy articulation, with a satisfying fullness and warmth. Again, great whether clean, overdriven, or distorted.

All around, surprisingly crisp low-strings, and round warm full high-strings, largely due to the tweaked stagger of the polepieces."


I ended up with a polepiece-height stagger similar to that of vintage '50s Strat pickups, with the biggest exception being the pole for the 3rd/"G"-sting- which, being plain instead of wound like the 3rd-string commonly used in the '50s, needs a lower pole to more smoothly balance with the other strings.
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#1951135 - 05/31/08 07:26 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: alfonso]
GuitarPlayerFL
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I've always used Seymour Duncan because in the 80s he had a lot of pickup choices and I've never heard a bad Duncan pup. There are a few boutique pup makers, but I know Duncan knows his stuff.

You can hear examples of his many pups here:

Humbucker sound demos

I personally use the PAF 59 in the neck. I do think, though, that the Alnico Pro II has a warmer tone IMO.

He has a 21 day return policy if you don't like the sound for any reason...as long as it's the USA or a participating country. You might want to email Duncan to see if Italy is included.

Return policy

Overall, his sight has a lot of great info even if you don't get a Duncan pup. Check out the FAQ...certain guitar woods will sound different and require pups to match.

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#1951313 - 06/01/08 07:45 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: GuitarPlayerFL]
Caevan O'Shite
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Also- don't overlook your strings; solid-nickel vs. nickel-plated steel-alloy (as far as the wound-strings go)...

I kinda think that, if you're using nickel-plated strings, you'll like solid-nickel strings much better overall, particularly on a Gibson Les Paul Classic.

Nickel-plated steel can sound too scooped and hollow in the mids, and to bright and thin, on one of these guitars.

Solid-nickel sound much more punchy, warmer and MUCH fuller across the mid-range. It's also "more vintage", if you will.

DR 'Pure Blues' (my personal favorite), GHS 'Nickel Rockers', and Gibson 'Vintage Reissue' and 'Les Paul', among others, are all very good solid-nickel strings that go particularly well with Les Pauls- and VERY much so with LP Classics and their ceramic humbuckers!
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#1951316 - 06/01/08 07:57 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
alfonso
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Thanks for all the answers, keep them coming!
This is what caught my attention for the Bare Knuckle "Mule" Pups:

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=nre-ddVAsaQ&feature=related

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#1951328 - 06/01/08 08:28 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: alfonso]
Scott Fraser
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Registered: 03/20/05
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 Originally Posted By: alfonso
Thanks for all the answers, keep them coming!
This is what caught my attention for the Bare Knuckle "Mule" Pups:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=nre-ddVAsaQ&feature=related


Great tone in that clip. I think pickup demos need to be a bit less overdriven than shown here, but, man, this guy's LP sounds fantastic. In the first segment it's amazingly Strat-like when he goes to the 12th fret, really SRV-esque. There's some mention of "push-pull" in the info, but without a better understanding of French I can't tell what he's saying. Is this just dropping into single coil mode with a switch on the volume knobs?

Scott Fraser

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#1951380 - 06/01/08 09:57 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Scott Fraser]
Rhino Madness
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 Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Is this just dropping into single coil mode with a switch on the volume knobs?

No, he says that it has a series/parallel push/pull switch for the neck pickup.

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#1951389 - 06/01/08 10:12 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite
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 Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
 Originally Posted By: alfonso
Thanks for all the answers, keep them coming!
This is what caught my attention for the Bare Knuckle "Mule" Pups:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=nre-ddVAsaQ&feature=related


Great tone in that clip. I think pickup demos need to be a bit less overdriven than shown here, but, man, this guy's LP sounds fantastic. In the first segment it's amazingly Strat-like when he goes to the 12th fret, really SRV-esque. There's some mention of "push-pull" in the info, but without a better understanding of French I can't tell what he's saying. Is this just dropping into single coil mode with a switch on the volume knobs?

Scott Fraser


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH.... I bet you're right, I bet that this is a coil-splitting get-up with a push-pull pot for the volume-knob...

Yeah, THAT would get you a little closer to a Strat type sound! \:D
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_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#1951394 - 06/01/08 10:21 AM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Rhino Madness
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 Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
 Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
 Originally Posted By: alfonso
Thanks for all the answers, keep them coming!
This is what caught my attention for the Bare Knuckle "Mule" Pups:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=nre-ddVAsaQ&feature=related


Great tone in that clip. I think pickup demos need to be a bit less overdriven than shown here, but, man, this guy's LP sounds fantastic. In the first segment it's amazingly Strat-like when he goes to the 12th fret, really SRV-esque. There's some mention of "push-pull" in the info, but without a better understanding of French I can't tell what he's saying. Is this just dropping into single coil mode with a switch on the volume knobs?

Scott Fraser


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH.... I bet you're right, I bet that this is a coil-splitting get-up with a push-pull pot for the volume-knob...

Yeah, THAT would get you a little closer to a Strat type sound! \:D

Here is what the original poster of the clip literally mentions:

 Quote:
2000 Les Paul Standard equipped with BareKnuckle "The Mule" pickups with push/pull on the neck pickup (series/parallel)

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#1951466 - 06/01/08 02:15 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Rhino Madness]
picker
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Boy, I'd like to see more about pole-piece adjustment. The only thing I ever read on it was Ted Nugent saying to lower them all flush with the surface or they sounded like crap. From what I read above, it can make or break a humbucker's tone.
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#1951477 - 06/01/08 02:43 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: picker]
Caevan O'Shite
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 Originally Posted By: Picker
Boy, I'd like to see more about pole-piece adjustment. The only thing I ever read on it was Ted Nugent saying to lower them all flush with the surface or they sounded like crap. From what I read above, it can make or break a humbucker's tone.


On my LP Classic, I basically raised the adjustable screw poles under the bass-side strings, and lowered 'em down on the treble-side, while simultaneously lowereing the pickup itself on the bass-side, and raising it on the treble-side.

The one under the 1st/High-E is almost flush with the bobbin, the one under the 6th/Low-E is raised up about twice as high as usual, and the other four in-between are varying heights dictated by the arc of the strings' (and fretboard's) radius, and my adjusting them to balance the output of all six-strings by ear.

The stagger I wound up with is very similar to that of a vintage Strat's pickups, except that I lowered the pole for the plain 3rd/G, which ould be louder than the wound-3rd/G commonly used in the '50s, which is what the original Fender pickups were designed with.

Generally, if you raise the poles while lowering the pickup by about the same amount, you'll get a little more sparkle and "air" and a slightly lower output; do the opposite, and you'll likely get a somewhat fatter, rounder tone with a little more output. "YMMV"! \:D
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_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#1951504 - 06/01/08 04:15 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
caprae
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#1951517 - 06/01/08 04:30 PM Re: Your favorite PAF-like P.up [Re: caprae]
caprae
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