#1950984 - 05/31/08 11:41 AM
Locking tuners Strat
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cool9
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Which locking tuners should I consider for a Strat? Sperzel? Which should I avoid? I have stock tuners now. I'm not a heavy player and don't plan on using a tremolo bar much.
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"I could play the guitar if I could figure out what the strings are for." - Steven Wright
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#1951017 - 05/31/08 01:11 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: cool9]
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alfonso
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I have the Sperzel, with a graphite nut. They do a great job on my self assembled strat. I have a floating vintage style Fender trem bridge, the one for 6 bolts but with only the 2 external ones and the guitar stays in tune perfectly, as you can hear.
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#1951020 - 05/31/08 01:19 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: alfonso]
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GuitarPlayerFL
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+1 to alfonso's suggestion.
I use Sperzel and also only use the 2 outer screws to retain the bridge.
I also read years ago that Eric Johnson used Tri-Flow lubricant in a can (you can buy at gun stores) to lube the nut.
All of these combined resulted in a guitar that came back in tune even after slacking the strings all the way..
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A great Jazz/Chord Melody Master (my former instructor http://www.robertconti.comLP/Strat/Tele/PV/Wolfgang/POD/JTM 45 Keys: RD700SX/XP-10/Karma (FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal) "I Love L.A." - Randy Newman
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#1951026 - 05/31/08 01:43 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: GuitarPlayerFL]
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Caevan O'Shite
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That also depends on what tuners are on there now; you may be able to use locking-tuners that need little or no modification to fit the existing holes (through-holes and screw-holes), and there are enough quality options out there that you may likely be able to have locking-tuners that will look similar or nearly identical to the stock ones you'll be replacing.
There are some great locking ones from Sperzel (like alfonso & GuitarPlayerFl recommend), Schaller, new Kluson by Tone Pros, Grover, among others. Look over those offered by retailers like Stewart-MacDonald and Musician's friend. (Stew-Mac will very easily help you find the closest match for your guitar via e-mail or telephone.)
Those Sperzels are very nice, and the Kluson/Tone Pros ones look very similar- externally- to the vintage-style tuners on many Strats; but again, whatever brand and model most closely retrofits what you've already got would be best for the least invasive installation.
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~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951080 - 05/31/08 05:05 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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cool9
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I have a 2008 American Standard neck. Robin Trower gets away w/o using a locking nut but uses locking tuners. He says he doesn't use tremolo bar much.
Building of EVH Frankenstein guitar: EVH said he used 3-in-1 oil on his locking nut. Great video:
http://www.evhgear.com/frankenstein/
_________________________
"I could play the guitar if I could figure out what the strings are for." - Steven Wright
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#1951089 - 05/31/08 05:41 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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GuitarPlayerFL
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That also depends on what tuners are on there now; you may be able to use locking-tuners that need little or no modification to fit the existing holes (through-holes and screw-holes), and there are enough quality options out there that you may likely be able to have locking-tuners that will look similar or nearly identical to the stock ones you'll be replacing.
Yes, I should mention I had to drill the holes bigger in my '97 Squier Strat (Japanese) to accomodate the Sperzels.
Maybe Cool9 could contact Sperzel to see what tuners will fit without modification if he doesn't want to drill.
_________________________
A great Jazz/Chord Melody Master (my former instructor http://www.robertconti.comLP/Strat/Tele/PV/Wolfgang/POD/JTM 45 Keys: RD700SX/XP-10/Karma (FKA GuitarPlayerSoCal) "I Love L.A." - Randy Newman
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#1951108 - 05/31/08 06:33 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: GuitarPlayerFL]
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Darcy H
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I have Sperzels and like them, but found after a time I prefered the vintage slotted ones, but since I had to drill to get the Sperzels to fit, I'm sort of stuck (I know I can fix it but too big of a job to bother). I didn't know they made them in different sizes or I would have got ones that didn't require redrilling the holes. I don't mind the pins not lining up, as those holes are covered by the tuners themselves, but I needed to bore out each hole to a larger dimension.
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#1951127 - 05/31/08 07:41 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Darcy H]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Whichever brand and model you go with, be sure to use some that have staggered-height tuner-posts similar to those that came on your guitar.
Stewart-MacDonald has all kinds of info, sizes and hole-locations; what they don't happen to have shown in their catalog and 'site 'pages, they can provide you with via phone or e-mail.
Yeah, I prefer to go without a locking-nut or any of that, but locking-tuners are a good idea, besides securing the string in the tuner's post, they eliminate sloppy excess winding around the post.
You can use a number of lubricants in the nut slots (and on the string-retainers, bridge-saddles, bridge-post fulcrum-points, etc. etc. etc. I like clear Teflon gel- it's fairly thick, stays put, lasts a while, is clear, and does its job very nicely. A very little applied to each friction-point is all you need.
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~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951155 - 05/31/08 09:41 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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cool9
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Thanks for info. What is the purpose of lubricant in the nut? You want the strings to move as free as possible in the nut during hard playing, bending, etc. whereas a bone nut provides a little too much friction?
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"I could play the guitar if I could figure out what the strings are for." - Steven Wright
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#1951295 - 06/01/08 08:12 AM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: cool9]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Yeah, you don't want the strings to catch or hang-up in their nut-slots at all; you want them to slide back-and-forth through them as needed, like during tuning, bending, vibrato, or whammy-bar use.
If you hear pinging from the headstock-area while tuning or bending, etc., it's most likely a string catching in a nut-slot or sring-retainer and then releasing with a "ping". The string will often have gone out of tune as its tension tries to even-out across the nut, string-retainer, etc. This can cause a string to suddenly go either sharp OR flat. Obviously, this is kinda undesirable. 
Besides having a properly cut and dressed nut to start with (yours is probably fine), a little lube helps here. You don't need very much at all- a tiny drop on the end of a pin or paper-clip or the like will do; too much gets the oil or whatever slopped all over the wood, and can even slightly dull the tone of an open-string by seeping into the winding on the lower-strings. (Part of why I like Teflon gel- it's thicker than some and tends to stay put nicely.)
If there are string-retainers- those little "string-trees" and bars on the headstocks of some guitars that hold some or all strings down more tightly behind the nut- a tiny dab under them where the strings contact them will help, too. (Some retainers- and also nuts and saddles- are made of graphite-composite materials and the like, or have rollers and may or may not need extra lubing.)
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~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951332 - 06/01/08 09:34 AM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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Scott Fraser
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you don't want the strings to catch or hang-up in their nut-slots at all; you want them to slide back-and-forth through them as needed, like during tuning, bending, vibrato, or whammy-bar use.
Has anybody used a roller nut, like the Jeff Beck Strat has? Any big improvement in tuning stability? Seems to me if it's such a great idea there would be a lot more of them available as stock items but thus far I've only seen that on the JB model.
Scott Fraser
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#1951333 - 06/01/08 09:35 AM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Scott Fraser]
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Scott Fraser
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My Carvin AE185 has Sperzel locking tuners, & the big benefit that I see with them is that string changes take maybe one quarter the time a normal tuner takes. The Sperzels really speed the process.
Scott Fraser
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#1951385 - 06/01/08 11:08 AM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Scott Fraser]
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Caevan O'Shite
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you don't want the strings to catch or hang-up in their nut-slots at all; you want them to slide back-and-forth through them as needed, like during tuning, bending, vibrato, or whammy-bar use. Has anybody used a roller nut, like the Jeff Beck Strat has? Any big improvement in tuning stability? Seems to me if it's such a great idea there would be a lot more of them available as stock items but thus far I've only seen that on the JB model. Scott Fraser
I got great results concerning tuning-stability from using a Wilkinson roller-nut on a Strat-styled axe with a whammy; the only real drawback was a less-than-perfect match to the fretboard's radius- the 3rd-string was a little to close to the 1st-fret, as was the 4th, to a lesser degree. Other than that, mine sounded fine and stayed in tune, and didn't need string-trees as it had rollers for downward-pressure as well as those to seat the strings. Well, it also put a tighter limit to what string-gauges would be usable; some medium and heavier gauge wound-strings would catch on the edges of the housing, or not even fit through it at all.
I think that many players are just too conservative about the appearance being too different from a traditional nut. Plus, some models of roller-nuts require enough wood to be removed to be somewhat irreversible, once installed.
_________________________
~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951435 - 06/01/08 01:20 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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cool9
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This is an informative thread for anyone building a Frankenstein or any other, for that matter.
That roller-nut radius information is very crucial, Caeven. I suppose a roller-nut must be screwed into the neck? I want to be very careful about any permanent changes I make to the neck.
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"I could play the guitar if I could figure out what the strings are for." - Steven Wright
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#1951478 - 06/01/08 03:52 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: cool9]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Yeah, the roller-nut that I had required two wood-screws, and some wood to be routed away, as well. There are other models and brands, though; 'm sure they vary quite a bit.
I'm also pretty sure that you'll do fine with a good set-up and a little lube in the nut-slots, though, as well, especially if you use locking tuners.
FWIW, the discrepancy wasn't a great one; maybe it was supposed to be a 12" r and my fretboard started with a 10" r at the 1st-fret, or maybe it was a defective part, just a little off...
The guitar was plenty playable still, the 3rd and 4th strings still cleared the 1st-fret pretty well; you just couldn't get away with a super-low action with zero relief without a little occasional fret-buzz there on the open 3rd string, and I'm more bothered by that than most people seem to be. I need to get over it and embrace the buzz on a good spanky Tele with a low-action and an arrow-straight neck!
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~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1951902 - 06/02/08 10:26 AM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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BillyBob69
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I have the planet waves locking tuners on my Standard Strat. I had the tremelo cranked down flush with the body in order to gain more sustain and tone.. the bridge is a Wilkinson trem with the string saver saddles.. The planet waves tuners also have a built in string cutter so there's no need to use wire cutters or a guitar tool. Once the strings are stretched well, it hardly ever goes out of tune. I didn't have to drill or anything else physically to the guitar. Just install and play.
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#1952079 - 06/02/08 03:12 PM
Re: Locking tuners Strat
[Re: Scott Fraser]
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alfonso
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you don't want the strings to catch or hang-up in their nut-slots at all; you want them to slide back-and-forth through them as needed, like during tuning, bending, vibrato, or whammy-bar use. Has anybody used a roller nut, like the Jeff Beck Strat has? Any big improvement in tuning stability? Seems to me if it's such a great idea there would be a lot more of them available as stock items but thus far I've only seen that on the JB model. Scott Fraser
I've never played on roller nuts, but my occasional experiences with rolling saddles make me think that the sound is screwed quite a lot. A lot of the vibration is not transmitted through moving parts and spurious vibrations are generated from the moving parts themselves and iteract with the string itself. This is my impression and thought from occasional experiences, but well, my instinct tells me so.
On the other side the performance of my graphite nut is absolutely perfect.
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