#1950289 - 05/30/08 02:47 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I'd like to better understand the goal, but from the top let me say that for that kind of money, I'd be loking at Santa Cruz/Collings/Breedlove/Goodall and probably five or six other manufacturers, and I would not make my decision based upon a picture in a catalog, but by hands on experience in playing an individual instrument.
I've said this many times before.... YOUR acoustic guitar is out there, and when you play it you will know it. There will be no question in your mind, you'll immediately know. If there IS a question, then you're holding the wrong instrument. For thsat kind of money, you can afford to be picky and NOT compromise. But you need to listen and feel, not look.
The best acoustic amp that I've heard is distributed by the same fols that distribute Schertler pickups (also the best acoustic guitar pickups that I have heard.) I don't remember the name. Sorry.
Looking at a high end setup like that, I have to ask why you would insert a device from the low end manufacturer "Boss" into the signal chain. Most guys that I know whould want such a high end rig to be pristine. They'd be looking at Pendulum preamps and like that.
Were I to put a rig together from scratch for working out in a standard club r church situation, it would probably contain an under $1k guitar, and about a $500 amp, and a multieffecets pedal similar to the one you have chosen. For playing at home otr recording I'd be looking to drop the big bucks on the guitar of my dreams. (in fact, I did.)
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1950350 - 05/30/08 05:44 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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webe123
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Yeah, the only thing about getting a TRUE acoustic, is that you have to find the right pickup system for it. One that doers not feedback is a must in my situation.
Because that is why I am replacing my Taylor 312ce in the first place....it has a terrific sound and I love to play it, but absolutely HATE the fishman pickup system in it.
And as far as the ES system, I could have that installed on my Taylor for only a few hundred bucks, but I am not crazy about the the ES.
At least with the Martin OMC, I can dial out any feedback with the digital notch feedback filter on it. So that is a plus. But the sound samples on the aura sound incredible just going through computer speakers when I have clicked demos of it, so I can imagine how that guitar might sound live with the aura system.
Is there a high end acoustic effects processor you would reccomend? The only reason I would use the Boss AD3 in the first place would be for a little chorus. As far as acoustic guitars go, a little chorus on some songs and maybe a little reverb is all I have ever needed.
One thing I like about the Boss AD3 is that it is very, very simple! Nothing complicated to it. I would like to keep it that way if I get another effects processor for my acoustic guitar.
So....any recomendation for decent acoustic guitar effects?
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#1950366 - 05/30/08 06:07 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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...you have to find the right pickup system for it. One that doers not feedback is a must in my situation.
...with the Martin OMC, I can dial out any feedback ....
But the sound samples on the aura sound incredible just going through computer speakers ...
... The only reason I would use the Boss AD3 in the first place would be for a little chorus. As far as acoustic guitars go, a little chorus on some songs and maybe a little reverb is all I have ever needed.
So....any recomendation for decent acoustic guitar effects?
Okay, in terms of pickups, there are quite a few good ones. What I see little point in is the ones that cram a mic inside the body. Who listens from inside the guitar?
About feedback... once you get the guitar out of the monitors and you've stuck your little personal monitor amp where you can hear it, you should not have any feedback. If you do, could it be because there are louder instruments around you forcing you to play too loud? If so, consider plastic sound shields. In the symphony, players in front of brass sections or percussion sections often use them for protection and so that they can hear their own instruments. They are kinda like a music stand with a clear plexi sheet instead of a metal tray. Very unobtrusive, and the stand is designed so that the legs are small and can tuck under chairs.
In terms of having the controls on the guitar, I'd prefer to spend the cash on an acoustic preamp, with the controls on IT, so that they would work with ANY guitar I plugged into it.
One speaker manufacturer used to say "we don't make plastic speakers for the same reason that Steinway doesn't make plastic pianos." I have never heard anything like what I might call a 'real' sound coming from any computer. Close your eyes and listen again. I really think that you're listening with your eyes and your hope that you've found a solution. I can dig it. Doing what you are trying to do, (as I said above) I'd be going much simpler and cheaper, anbd NOBODY in the audience would hear a difference. (and I am indeed the "...spend the money, let's get tweaky..." guy, but I like to think that I do this where it is practical and important.) I don't think that you need to spend the amount of money you have budgeted for this project, but you seem to have enough and that is a good thing... usually we are fighting a budget that does not support the needs and wants of the player... you have the opposite problem.
Have you considered just getting the internal pickups of your Taylor changed? Any luthier can do this for you, and you can explore options from Schertler, Blade, Hiland, etc.
You might try the Taylor as it sits, with the Pendulum preamp. Could change your mind about the sound.
Anyway, no I don't have any good suggestions as to chorus for acoustic. I've not found any acoustic effects device that did not change the tone of the instrument when inserted in the signal path, when the effect is not engaged. If you care to investigate, look for the term full bypass or true bypass.
It is nice to see a guy investigate options before throwing cash at the problem.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1950381 - 05/30/08 06:31 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Omaha
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Registered: 12/10/06
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Loc: Omaha, NE
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Couple of thoughts.
- If I had a guitar I liked but a pickup I didn't, I'd replace the pickup with one of the new DTar WaveLength models. Cheap fix. If you like the idea of the Aura, then you can add an external Aura pedal. Also look at the DTar MamaBear.
- The most feedback proof acoustic I ever had was an ES equipped Taylor 714ce. You say you don't like the ES. Fair enough, but have you tried out the new 9v version? Its a significant improvement over the old AA version.
- In my experience, the ES is really great in what I would call a "coffee shop/church" type environment, where you want a very natural acoustic tone. But if you are playing in more of a band environment, I prefer the "bite" I get with a piezo.
- After going back and forth on this myself over the years, I have settled on a custom made Ovation that is really working for me. It has essentially the same Aura based pre-amp that Martin is using (Ovation calls it "Virtual Image Processing"). What I like is I can dial up the percentage of "image" and get a softer, more pure acoustic type tone, or dial it down and get an edgier piezo tone if I need it. Its nice to have that control.
- The question of chorus and reverb is hard to address without a good idea of what kind of environments you are planning on playing in. You might consider a small amp that has some digital effects built in. Or you might need a full PA with a rack mounted effects unit. In my case, I started using a DigiTech Vocalist Live 4 last year, and it has those effects built in. Very handy stuff.
Good luck on your search!
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#1950398 - 05/30/08 07:18 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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webe123
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Well as far as it not being as needful to have high end gear just because I am playing in church...I guess we will have to disagree on that point, Bill.
Musicians do not own high end equpiment for an audience reaction anyway...they could barely tell if you are playing an american made strat or squire strat. We both know this to be true! But why do people buy high end equipment in the first place? There are a lot of reasons for others, but for me it is the feel of the instrument... like when I pick up my Taylor....it is a universe away from the $300.00 fender acoustic I had for years on end, I can tell you that.
But did the fender acoustic work? Sure! Could the audience tell when I switched to a Taylor? Not really. The only reason they knew I had a different guitar, was because I got a small bodied Taylor and there was enough difference in the body shape that people noticed....if I had of gotten a drednaught body shape Taylor....I doubt people would have even noticed!
You may not see playing at church or a church functions as "important" enough to warrant high end gear, but I don't play at rock concerts or clubs or even in a stuido, so the church functions are maily my "main" gig. I just do not agree that because I play somewhere and not get paid for it, I should not use the best equpiment I can afford.
I simply disagree there are only certian situations when you should use high end stuff. If you can afford it, hey, why not?
But I understand your point about not "needing" anything more than a $400.00 to $500.00 guitar and amp in the same price range, but you have to understand...... I HAVE played on that stuff for YEARS!
I basically want a change to some really decent high end gear. Why? Because I am now in a position (or soon will be) where I can afford some high end stuff without breaking my budget.
I was never able to do that before, so it is kinda like a dream come true for me. If you had a dream and you really liked cars for example, would you dream about owning something you may never be able to afford...like a ferrari or rolls royce...or would you dream about some car you have used all your life, like a used ford escort was for me?
True, I may not be paid for what I do, but I feel that my playing is just as important as any paid gig I have been to.
And I have always played and had gear within my means, but now I have a chance to get some high end gear I could never otherwise afford and even though I am well aware there are cheaper options, this is really my "dream" equpipment.
Or in other words...something I may not have been able to afford otherwise.....of course THAT setup is just what I am planning for my acoustic guitar setup...I have another one for my regular guitar setup and one for MIDI guitar equipment. LOL!
Oh and I have considered an Olsen guitar and just having him put in the pickups I want. They are about $12,500.00 for most any guitar he builds, unless you want extra special options such a BRW or a lot of inlay work...at least that is what his website says he will build one for. The time is about 6 to 8 months wait time.
I have also considered an ovation adamas SLOTHEAD. One of the originals made in 1976! There were only 34 of them made. I have a video I got off of youtube of Nancy Wilson of heart playing "crazy on you" in the 1970's using the adamas slothead....nice sounding guitar! There is a guy on the ovation fan club forum that has one for sale...price? $10,000.00
Edited by webe123 (05/30/08 07:38 AM)
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#1950415 - 05/30/08 07:56 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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webe123
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Oh, by the way....I never thought of TC Electronics....but this looks SWEET for effects for an acoustic guitar. So much for "simplicity" LOL!
G Natural system - $699.97
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GNatural/
Edited by webe123 (05/30/08 08:35 AM)
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#1950457 - 05/30/08 09:20 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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well, tc makes excellent electronics.
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1950464 - 05/30/08 09:32 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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...You may not see playing at church or a church functions as "important" enough to warrant high end gear, ...
That is not at all my point. Do you understand how MP3s work? Same idea. The noise floor of the environment and the masking noise of the environment come into play. These factors make large expenditures on gear to be mostly a matter of ego rather than need. Inspiration is a seperate issue (though one might ask how much more inspired could ask to be, given the venue.)
Do take a look at the Pedulum preamps. You might also pick up a newer edition of Acoustic Guitar mag... I bought my gear a long time ago and I don't keep up on the latest and greatest, so there may be options that we have not considered.
If you really just want a new expensive acoustic, go for it. But as I said, play them, don't buy by looks.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1950595 - 05/30/08 12:50 PM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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webe123
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Well like I said, this is my dream gear. So ego does play a part in it some I suppose. But not all. Tone and feel go a long way in inspiring me to play...I just can't get inspired to play on some squire guitar.
Can I play one if it is all I have got? Sure, but I really don't understand your concern about me not needing any new gear because you think that what I have should do just fine according to some weird venue ratio.....
But is that a Bad thing? Do you HAVE to have a $500.00 guitar and amp and just be happy with that? I don't think so...at least not the way I look at it!
If I thought it was stupid to buy the high end gear in the first place, I would have never of had any dreams or expectations about it. But I am sorry, I simply disagree that this ratio you speak of, does not make any more of a difference. FORGET about the PEOPLE or the VENUE.....I am buying this for ME! Itvb make a difference to ME...not the audience!
Call it what you want, but I don't think it is a bad thing at all.
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#1950690 - 05/30/08 03:51 PM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: webe123]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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... you think that what I have should do just fine according to some weird venue ratio.....
No I may be misunderstanding, but to me it read that you were dumping a decent Taylor that you found quite inspiring to play because you don't like the pickups, in favor of an expensive Martin that you saw in an ad (and you guys all know how I feel about ads and salesmen!...)and have never played, because it seemed that the electronics did something that you liked.
That is why I suggest getting the electronics that you like, and keeping the guitar that you like; or if you are looking to get that better acoustic, go play a bunch, don't just buy one from an ad because it looks good on the screen. That's all.
There was a TC pedal many years ago that was popular with acoustic players.. it may have been a chorus,,,, it was about $350 then, whene everyone elses pedals were like $50 to $70. I've used variosu TC stuff in peoples studios,a nd it always seemd to sound quite good. If they make an acoustic effects unit, I'd certainly check it out.
And I in no way think that owing good gear is a bad thing.... I'm just trying to watch your bottom line vis a vis the context. As it stand now, you are saying that this doesn't matter, you want the best.. Okay, fair enough. I'm like that a lot, too. I'd just hate to have you come back to me later after you bought some top end stuff that i suggested, and have you tell me that so and so says that you scould have saved thousands by buying a blah blah instead of what you bought.
I will suggest that what you buy should all be of a comparable quality level since, like any otwr signal chain, this one can only sound as good as it's weakest link.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1950880 - 05/31/08 06:37 AM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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soggybomb
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Registered: 08/03/07
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The best acoustic amp that I've heard is distributed by the same fols that distribute Schertler pickups (also the best acoustic guitar pickups that I have heard.) I don't remember the name. Sorry.
Bill
That would be the Schertler David. Lovely little amp.
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#1952694 - 06/03/08 04:57 PM
Re: Possible acoustic guitar/amp setup?
[Re: soggybomb]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/msg/706299437.html
has a Fishman Aura for sale.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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