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#1942687 - 05/15/08 03:46 PM Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c
gaganuga
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Hi all

I want to by a Hammond Clone and wanted to know your opinion
about those 2 Keyboards.

Clavia C1 is new and should sound better than the Stage or electros.

Hammond has renewed the XK series too.

Has someone have heard both?

regards gaga

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#1942822 - 05/16/08 03:02 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: gaganuga]
eric
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They are both great. Get the Nord if you need to carry it under your arm and can sacrifice the drawbar interface. Its strong suit is portability.

Get the Hammond if you have been playing real organ for a long time and you are acclimated to the drawbars and other UI from a tonewheel organ and you don't mind a little bit of extra girth.
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#1942938 - 05/16/08 08:19 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: eric]
Outkaster
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Get the XK3-C if you want a lot of tweakability. If you want real drawbars don't get the Nord. I don't see many of them around mostly because of price and dealers not wanting to carry them like shitar center. It is really for someone that wants a dedicated clone.

Edited by Outkaster (05/16/08 09:46 AM)
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#1942968 - 05/16/08 09:08 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
bhodaway10
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I ended up purchasing a Nord C1 instead of the Hammond XK3C. It was a tough decision since both are great instruments. You won't be sorry w/ either.

I ended up purchasing the Nord C1 because it was lighter and easier to carry and the price point was less. Having dual manuals was something I really wanted. I feel cramped playing bass and melody in a 61 keyboard. I don't mind the "light drawbars" since I'm able to store a lot of the different settings and use them easily. I play jazz and everybody who I play with loves the sound.

The retail price for a single manual XK3C is 2,295.97. The bottom part is 1,495.00. Hammond Pro XK-System Stand is $675. The retail price of a Nord C1 (dual manuals) is 2,899.97. I ended up buying the nord accessories for the keyboard - stand was about $239 and I bought the half moon switch retailed for $129. I got mine for substantially less (as you could the hammond gear) but that's the retail price.

On both of the systems you don't need the specific stands but they do make it more stable and better looking.

B.





Edited by bhodaway10 (05/16/08 10:18 AM)

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#1943140 - 05/16/08 02:45 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
eric
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 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Get the XK3-C if you want a lot of tweakability. If you want real drawbars don't get the Nord. I don't see many of them around mostly because of price and dealers not wanting to carry them like shitar center. It is really for someone that wants a dedicated clone.


I don't think price is the reason. Most people on the forums have lots of expensive gear and the Hammond is not really much more expensive. As for why they are not seen in more stores, may have something to do with Hammond's distribution footprint. With that said, my local Sam Ash had and XK3, XK3c and XK1 the last time I visited. Pretty accessible. I played Hammond for years (XB2s and XK2), but somehow was enticed by the Electro when it came out, driven primarily by the extra sounds and the fact that I can use MIDI Drawbars with it.
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#1943142 - 05/16/08 02:55 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: eric]
Calumet
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Yeah...but side by side, how do they compare sound-wise?
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#1943145 - 05/16/08 02:58 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Calumet]
eric
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Through a Leslie with similar settings, I think it would be tough to differentiate them in a double-blind test. I think the Hammond would edge out the Nord by just a hair, but they both sound DAMN good.
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#1943210 - 05/16/08 06:58 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: eric]
gaganuga
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Here what I found on Youtube:

Nord c1:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eI47aAZFTs8&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=33D_KyzSmTs
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YP6xfjdt9o8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7War2nThCzQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=P--dOYuyqOQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=FRygnAn2578

Xk3c:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=yv0_EGajQf0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RFsg5tD0b1s
http://youtube.com/watch?v=x8HtcBVhs6k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeGJSHtz8Xc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zazoVG12ngk&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YbCh_qpq0Io&feature=related

I didn't found any XK3C video playing with the band.
Maby someone knows a good live viedeo.

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#1943221 - 05/16/08 07:27 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: gaganuga]
jfhyde
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Another consideration is midi cntrller capabilities, its nice to midi up to a keyboard module to add piano sounds. The C1 is totally inadequate in this department, there's no way to control volume and its sends spurious midi cntrl messages from the top manual that really confuses my soniccell.

John

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#1943239 - 05/16/08 08:47 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: jfhyde]
Outkaster
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Some of those dudes have strange phrasing in those clips. Guess I will stick to piano. There are a shit load of organ players.
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#1943425 - 05/17/08 10:27 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
mate_stubb
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 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Some of those dudes have strange phrasing in those clips. Guess I will stick to piano. There are a shit load of organ players.


I dunno. In my experience, there are a lot more people who play organ than there are organ players, if you catch my drift.
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#1943429 - 05/17/08 10:29 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: mate_stubb]
Sven Golly
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 Originally Posted By: mate_stubb
I dunno. In my experience, there are a lot more people who play organ than there are organ players, if you catch my drift.


+1000
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#1943454 - 05/17/08 11:49 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Sven Golly]
misterdregs
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I just got a C1 and haven't played the XK, so take this free advice for what it's costing you. I was looking for a while at getting a real Hammond, but balked at the expense and am glad I ended up with something I can gig with for less than even the cheapest beater B3/C3/A-100 and a decent Leslie. A there really is no way I would schlep even a chopped Hammond around much at all. I never have done more than mess around on a real B3, so the drawbars, physical layout, etc. weren't the dealbreakers that it would be for a lot of folks. Assuming the basic sound production is comparable (obviously if you love the sound of one more, that's the one to buy), this would be how I'd approach it:

Nord C1
PROS: Two manuals for a LOT less money ($1000). Lighter weight. Combo organs. It's red.
CONS: Pushbutton drawbars.

Hammond
PROS: Real drawbars. Layout like a traditional Hammond. It's NOT red.
CONS: Weight. Expense.

I don't anticipate using the C1 as a controller, but as mentioned above, there are some issues apparently.
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#1943510 - 05/17/08 03:08 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: misterdregs]
daviel
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The weight and size is a valid consideration. I'm taking the electro 61 and a pc2 for lower manual and a kbd amp tomorrow to our house of blues gig just because of space and set up time. The xksystem is staying home.
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#1943547 - 05/17/08 06:13 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
suraci
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Since no two B3's are the same, and
since no two clones are the same ( see above )
What do you think of this idea
Instead using two of the same companies dual manual model

Why not one model from, eg Hammond Suzuki xk3c
and another like a Nord, Korg
for a broader variety.

I find that each companies representation ( samples ) of the B, is a little different photo of that highly sought after sound.
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#1943573 - 05/17/08 08:16 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
bhodaway10
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At one point in my buying purchase, I played a Hammond XK1 through a Pro-145 Motion Sound back to back with the Nord through it's sim. I preferred the Nord sim (I was very surprised) and that was one reason why I bought the Nord.

I think with most clonewheels, it's also important to have proper amplification. What are you planning use as an amp? Leslie? PA? I would A/B them with what you're planning to use.

Where I live (SF Bay Area) parking and space is at a premium. It's really nice to have my C1, keyboard stand, and music stand all in one package.

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#1943688 - 05/18/08 07:28 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: bhodaway10]
Doc Tonewheel
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I started with a Crumar T2, moved to an old Korg BX-3, then a Voce V3, so it's nice to see the constant inprovement in the development of clonewheels. I played both the XK-3C and C1, and while both are fantastic, I choose the XK-3C. As Outkaster mentioned, I really like the tweakability and real drawbars on the XK-3C. The day it arrived, I spent a lot of time adjusting everything on the XK-3C to match my A105 as closely as possible. The C1 doesn't have this degree of "customization". Also, the key click on all the Nords drive me crazy. While I do wish the XK was lighter, it's not bad at all, and since I get a hard flight case for anything that I take out anyway, the weight isn't too much of an issue for me. Besides, I could use the exercise. Amplification is a big factor with the clonewheels. To my ears, the Hammond stuff does not sound so good through Motion Sound stuff, while the Nord is OK through the Motion Sound stuff. The Leslie sim is better on the XK-3C compared with the XK-3, and I don't mind using it for playing out, but I do think the C1 is a bit better.
As everyone else has said in just about every thread on clonewheels, use your own ears, weight your own needs and finances, buy the one that fits best, and enjoy!
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#1943796 - 05/18/08 10:56 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
misterdregs
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 Originally Posted By: suraci
Since no two B3's are the same, and
since no two clones are the same ( see above )
What do you think of this idea
Instead using two of the same companies dual manual model

Why not one model from, eg Hammond Suzuki xk3c
and another like a Nord, Korg
for a broader variety.

I find that each companies representation ( samples ) of the B, is a little different photo of that highly sought after sound.


Interesting idea. However, there is a substantial improvement of the sound from the Nord Electro to the C1. For example, the split out bass for the lower manual is much better than a similar setting on the Electro for playing left hand bass. The percussion also sounds more authentic to me.
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#1943841 - 05/18/08 12:04 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
richwhite9
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 Originally Posted By: suraci
Why not one model from, eg Hammond Suzuki xk3c
and another like a Nord, Korg for a broader variety.

I find that each companies representation ( samples ) of the B, is a little different photo of that highly sought after sound.


A workstation addresses the weighted keys, pianos and synths pallets better than two organ boards. Many have decent enough organ and bass sounds to do a reasonable enough organ bass or LH. Most could be used as a controller to drive the XK-3C's LH midi.

A second organ board could be added but for most it's overkill.

An Electro 73 gives you some great EP and Clav sounds and the xtra keys mean it can cover some dual manual stuff. The Pianos are OK making it a great practice gig board. It probably makes more sense than the Hammond LH board but lacks the 'authenticity'.

Lots of options and none of them are wrong. What works for you?

The latest and greatest are the C1 and XK-3c. The XK-3C and a recent weighted key workstation or digital piano is a hard to beat combo for practicality, authenticity, and sound quality.

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#1943844 - 05/18/08 12:10 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: bhodaway10]
Doc Tonewheel
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 Originally Posted By: bhodaway10
I ended up purchasing a Nord C1 instead of the Hammond XK3C. It was a tough decision since both are great instruments. You won't be sorry w/ either.

I ended up purchasing the Nord C1 because it was lighter and easier to carry and the price point was less. Having dual manuals was something I really wanted. I feel cramped playing bass and melody in a 61 keyboard. I don't mind the "light drawbars" since I'm able to store a lot of the different settings and use them easily. I play jazz and everybody who I play with loves the sound.

The retail price for a single manual XK3C is 2,295.97. The bottom part is 1,495.00. Hammond Pro XK-System Stand is $675. The retail price of a Nord C1 (dual manuals) is 2,899.97. I ended up buying the nord accessories for the keyboard - stand was about $239 and I bought the half moon switch retailed for $129. I got mine for substantially less (as you could the hammond gear) but that's the retail price.

On both of the systems you don't need the specific stands but they do make it more stable and better looking.

B.





Goes without saying, but in my shopping, I found that street prices can vary quite a lot for the XK-3c. The place I bought mine was $200 cheaper than all the other places I checked which covered the cost of the expression pedal AND a hard case.
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#1943875 - 05/18/08 01:11 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Doc Tonewheel]
suraci
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I am considering the xk3c to be added to the Korg cx3

My reasoning is not crystal clear but here is my thought

Not so much for bass
but for the right hand comping
Some background
I bought the earlier model- XK3 2 years ago
it sounded so authentic and yet
bc of something about the sound
I actually switched to a CX3!
something about cx3 was more "pointed"
- slightly better for solo AND for bass
-these are subtle things.

I did not regret the swap.
BUT there is something I miss from xk3

I am thinking a certain Xk3 sound will improve the tone of the comping.

And the xk3c is even sonically perhaps better- both for shaping tone and the raw tone

Can anyone add more commentary ( James McS was helpful )on the xk3 versus the xk3c?
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#1943890 - 05/18/08 01:35 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
Outkaster
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If people have to worry about 5 or 10 pounds that is a little petty. It has nothing do to with the sound of the clone. It should not really count as con. If wanted to I could say the Nords are built like shit as a con but it has nothing to do with the sound.
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#1943908 - 05/18/08 02:05 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
suraci
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good points
I agree 100%

Fine if a great sounding rig as light
but that should really be an afterthought

When I was young ( integrity - not old timer )
I carried a B3 and a few times
I managed to muscle it alone withOUT a fancy roller carry
ten years ago I barehugged a 145 leslie

I did bc I really CARE about the result
the sound

I understand the shlepping part too
but as a society we have grown soft


Edited by suraci (05/18/08 02:11 PM)
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#1943913 - 05/18/08 02:13 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
misterdregs
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 Originally Posted By: suraci
good points
I agree 100%

Fine if a great sounding rig as light
but that should really be an afterthought

When I was young ( integrity - not old timer )
I carried a B3 and a few times
I managed to muscle it alone withOUT a fancy roller carry
ten years ago I barehugged a 145 leslie

I did bc I really CARE about the result
the sound

I understand the shlepping part too
but as a society we have grown soft


suraci, you still look really young in your picture! \:D
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#1943920 - 05/18/08 02:23 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: misterdregs]
suraci
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thanks for the compliment
but that picture of me is taken at a Manhattan studio
around 1999, or so, give or take!
I had just switched to bottled milk at
around that time
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#1944084 - 05/18/08 07:18 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: Outkaster]
misterdregs
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 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
If people have to worry about 5 or 10 pounds that is a little petty. It has nothing do to with the sound of the clone. It should not really count as con. If wanted to I could say the Nords are built like shit as a con but it has nothing to do with the sound.


If you've got a bad back or are pushing 50 (or more), a little weight can make a difference and, all other things being equal, the lighter weight and smaller footprint can be a plus.

As far as the "built like shit", I haven't experienced or heard much about poor quality from Clavia. I've had the Electro 61 or 73 for quite a few years with no problems.
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#1944094 - 05/18/08 07:41 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
misterdregs
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 Originally Posted By: suraci

I had just switched to bottled milk at
around that time



That probably explains the slightly cynical and world-weary look in the photograph.

But heck, if you were single-handedly totin' a B3 and Leslie at such a tender age, I would have to say you're the Keyboard Corner's equivalent of Davy Crockett (King of the Wild Frontier)- "Killed him a bear when he was only three." Be sure to pronounce it "bahr" though.
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#1944125 - 05/18/08 09:40 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: misterdregs]
suraci
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You must be psycho - excuse me -chic, psychic- sii kick
That intimate head shot of me conceals the fact that I am bahr arsed in that there photo
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#1944142 - 05/18/08 11:29 PM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: suraci]
Analogaddict
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I tried both extensively (XK3c and C1) and ended up buying the Nord. I can do without the physical drawbars, and the smaller board the better IMO. Also, since I'm in Sweden, a C1 costs less than the single manual XK-3. A fully equipped XK-3 with lower manual costs twice as much as a C1 here. Taking weight and ease of setup into consideration - I bought the C1. I found the Leslie sim on both KILLER, the XK perhaps sounded a bit fuller. I have a Leslie 3300, and I'd feel comfortable leaving it at home using either clonewheel.

What I like:

The SOUND! Huge, warm sound with great response, it cuts and blends. Percussion and chorus sound just right and the reverb sounds nothing short of fantastic. Yes, it's placed before the Leslie sim. \:D

The 'other' organs. Dead-on Vox and Farfisa renditions.

The portability and ease of use. I can bring it on the subway if I want to, arrive five minutes before soundcheck and be ready in time. Also, it's light and well-balanced enough to place on the upper tier with a master keyboard below.

11-pin Leslie output!

What I miss:

The user tonewheel sets of the XK-3. Being able to 'switch' tonewheels is a really nice feature that I hope Clavia will bring in a future update. The NI B4 does this too.

The drawbars. There's no denying it, the physical feeling of yanking drawbars is hard to replace.

The ability to leave the lower keyboard at home. With the XK system, you can bring exactly what you need for that particular gig.

Pitch and mod wheels. The C1 is not the ultimate controller. ;\)

Of course it's all a matter of taste - and cost, depending on which side of the Atlantic You live on, the dollar rate is really confusing right now. Regarding sending goofy midi cc:s to modules, that's something all clones do, right? every drawbar has a cc, probably an unregistred parameter number, so there's really no telling what it will do to a module. My Nord Electro really messed up my Triton rack back in the day. \:\) Luckily, midi filters on new workstations and synths are generally good. I'm pretty covered when it comes to keyboards, so I can use the C1 for organ only, if you need a master keyboard you may want to take another look at the XK-3 or the CX-3. Or a Nord Stage Compact.
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#1944214 - 05/19/08 06:30 AM Re: Clavia Nord C1 vs. Hammond XK-3c [Re: misterdregs]
Outkaster
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 Originally Posted By: misterdregs
 Originally Posted By: Outkaster
If people have to worry about 5 or 10 pounds that is a little petty. It has nothing do to with the sound of the clone. It should not really count as con. If wanted to I could say the Nords are built like shit as a con but it has nothing to do with the sound.


If you've got a bad back or are pushing 50 (or more), a little weight can make a difference and, all other things being equal, the lighter weight and smaller footprint can be a plus.

As far as the "built like shit", I haven't experienced or heard much about poor quality from Clavia. I've had the Electro 61 or 73 for quite a few years with no problems.

I have arthritis in my neck in my early 40's and a bad back. Mostly from years of Martial Arts and stuff and I can tote an XK-3c in an anvil case with wheels. It is not that big of a deal and part of the game if you gig a lot.


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