#1942510 - 05/15/08 10:00 AM
Learning funky clav
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Chaso DeChaso
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Registered: 11/13/03
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Can anyone provide advice on how to learn to play a funky clav sort of deal? (I hate the term 'funky clav' but I guess it gets across the sort of rhythmic playing we all know.)
Obvious advice would be "Uhh, open your ears" - in other words, go listen to the stuff. But being one of those limited people who over-relies on 'the dots' I wonder if there are any instruction/exercise/patterns books anyone could also recommend to supplement by lame ears.
Thanks in advance and sorry to create a whole new thread - it isn't something I usually do but the search function revealed little on this topic (even granting I typically lack the intellectual capacity to properly utilize website search tools).
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#1942524 - 05/15/08 10:32 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Chaso DeChaso]
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retrokeys
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First...check out a wah wah pedal. Second, approach the instrument like it was a conga drum. There is nothing wrong with practicing rhythm patterns on your knees or a convenient table tabletop until you get comfortable.. Use both hands. Third, use open fingerings..lots or suspensions. Clusters and even triads tend to get muddy sounding. Spread out and get funky.
Last and most important, listen to Stevie Wonder and Billy Preston.
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#1942526 - 05/15/08 10:37 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: retrokeys]
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Sven Golly
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In addition to what retrokeys suggests above, get yourself a drumming rudiments book, look up paradiddles, and practice those. That's a great starting block; you can also practice almost anywhere; in the car during traffic jams, at your desk (if you really dislike your coworkers), at the dinner table (the wife loves this! ;)), etc. 
And, as has been said, listen, listen, listen. Immerse yourself in the style you're trying to cop, and really focus on the part; not so much for what notes are being played, but the rhythm. The notes will come later... rhythm's what you're missing. 
Good luck!
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake. ~Nietzsche
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#1942545 - 05/15/08 11:18 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Chaso DeChaso]
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tonyggg
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First...check out a wah wah pedal
Absolutely agree. Years ago I had a Hohner D6 running through a Morely Wow Wow, amplified by a Leslie 147. The playing technique could be best described as "staccato" for that funky sound. I purchased the D6 back in the eiqhties, used for $600. Sold it last year for $1,100! Used the money and picked up a Nord Lead 2X. The clavinet also lends itself to the pianet classical era as well. What are you using for your Clav sound?
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#1942560 - 05/15/08 11:46 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: tonyggg]
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MONTUNOMAN
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As far as books go, try adgproductions.com
Andrew Gordon has written some good books dealing with pop styles.
Edited by MONTUNOMAN (05/15/08 12:21 PM)
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#1942566 - 05/15/08 12:07 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: tonyggg]
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linwood
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I had a mint D6 that I sold about 10 years ago. Now for clav I use either a motif or the Scarbee. I really need to get another keyboard in here. I hate playing B3 or clav from my weighted keyboard. Like Sven said, it's all in the rhythm and how you lay into the notes. You can do a lot with just 5th's / 4th's. I use clav all the time and mix it back a bit. Maybe do a couple tracks of it and pan left/right just to take the place of a guitar player doin' some "chicken pickin on the good string" because I wanna keep all the $$ I can. Like here. Keep in mind the context, it's pretty goofy, but that's what I do to get over. Anyway, there are two tracks going on here and it's just filler stuff to make the track shake the way I want it to. Not rocket science, just the very basics. You'll hear 1 and 5 and sometimes 8 or 9 patterns in the left hand and triad stuff or 5th's/ 4th's in the right. Easy stuff, but it's where you place it and the feel you do it with.
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#1942568 - 05/15/08 12:13 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: linwood]
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ABECK
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I used to have a D6 and the action lends itself very much to a "funky" style. Hard to describe, but it is very responsive and doesn't feel like any other type of action to me.
Can't add anything else that the other's haven't covered, except, if listening to Superstition as an example, be aware that there are 3 clav tracks playing at the same time. I used to go nuts trying to play exactly like the album (until I found that out.)
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#1942571 - 05/15/08 12:19 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: linwood]
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Cliffk
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Gotta say, Linwood, the track definitely benefits from the clav, in spite of it being almost subliminal. Great job.
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#1942580 - 05/15/08 12:35 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Cliffk]
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mate_stubb
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Leave a lot of space.
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#1942595 - 05/15/08 01:09 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: mate_stubb]
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Keybass
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+1
Edited by Keybass (05/15/08 01:10 PM)
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#1942597 - 05/15/08 01:11 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: linwood]
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Joe P
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I've been using the Clav with the auto-wah on my Electro and I really like it. It sounds great, but I find myself reluctant to use the higher notes. I have the preset an octave shift down and then still only play on the bottom 2-1/2 octaves. The upper notes lack something, they seem lame. I've found this to be true on all the reproduced clav sounds I've heard. Any comments? If it is the nature of the clav I am cool with that.
Regards,
Joe
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#1942618 - 05/15/08 01:54 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: linwood]
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Joe Muscara
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LOL - I wasn't expecting that to be an ad! Still, it's a nice effect in there.
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#1942628 - 05/15/08 02:04 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Joe P]
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SK
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The upper notes lack something, they seem lame. I've found this to be true on all the reproduced clav sounds I've heard. Any comments? If it is the nature of the clav I am cool with that.
I'd say it's the nature of the clav; the middle and lower registers are usually more useful. It's a cool sound and just right for some things, but limiting as an actual instrument. Such as, I don't know anyone who considers themselves just a 'clavinetist'.
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#1942634 - 05/15/08 02:11 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Joe P]
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mikeNZ1
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Trying to find decent learning resources for contemporary keyboard is not easy. Trying to learn complicated chords and patterns from recordings is also not easy.
I use "Intermediate Rock Keyboard" and "Mastering Rock Keyboard" to help me learn some new skills. These cover all rock styles, with some good examples of funk and soul. I would hesitate to say that they are worthwhile buying just for the funk/soul examples, but they are a rich learning resource, and genuinely go to a very high musical standard.
A Wah pedal is not essential. There are plenty of funk and soul recordings that use fixed wah or no wah at all on the clav sound. Listening to Superstition now I can't hear any obvious use of variable Wah on the clavinets. You can play a lot of funk with fixed preset sounds.
Our band might do Superstition one day. I am also a trumpet player, so have the brass parts down. The only problem is trying to cover 3 clav parts, plus lead trumpet and the horn section all at once!
Regarding the sound, a real clav has a bunch of register switches that alter the pickup wiring to alter the tone and attack character. Some high end synths (like Kurzweil PC and K series) have clav sounds with multiple pickup samples, and use controllers to simulate the register switches. If you muck about with the controls on your Electro you might be able to bring out the sound you want - the manual should describe what is possible.
Also, vintage clavinets would usually have been played through a guitar cabinet or an electric piano cabinet, which have different sounds to our modern clean, high powered keyboard amps and PAs. The Kurzweil boards have amp modelling effects that simulate EP and guitar cabinets, and this helps gives a vintage sound. I don't know if the Electro can do this or not. If it can't, try using a vintage style guitar amp or amp modeller. Amp modellers are pretty cheap these days.
The D6 manual suggests using the EQ on the amp in conjunction with the register switches.
"The register switches (5, Fig. 1) vary the tone, whereby the treble and bass regulators on the amplifier should be suitably set to obtain the required balanced tone effect."
Michael
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#1942656 - 05/15/08 02:49 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: mikeNZ1]
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linwood
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Remember how good Kevin Murphy was on clav? He'd be a good guy to listen to along with Stevie and Herbie.
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#1942912 - 05/16/08 07:39 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: mikeNZ1]
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Joe P
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Registered: 01/24/05
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Trying to find decent learning resources for contemporary keyboard is not easy. Trying to learn complicated chords and patterns from recordings is also not easy.
I use "Intermediate Rock Keyboard" and "Mastering Rock Keyboard" to help me learn some new skills. These cover all rock styles, with some good examples of funk and soul. I would hesitate to say that they are worthwhile buying just for the funk/soul examples, but they are a rich learning resource, and genuinely go to a very high musical standard.
A Wah pedal is not essential. There are plenty of funk and soul recordings that use fixed wah or no wah at all on the clav sound. Listening to Superstition now I can't hear any obvious use of variable Wah on the clavinets. You can play a lot of funk with fixed preset sounds.
Our band might do Superstition one day. I am also a trumpet player, so have the brass parts down. The only problem is trying to cover 3 clav parts, plus lead trumpet and the horn section all at once!
Regarding the sound, a real clav has a bunch of register switches that alter the pickup wiring to alter the tone and attack character. Some high end synths (like Kurzweil PC and K series) have clav sounds with multiple pickup samples, and use controllers to simulate the register switches. If you muck about with the controls on your Electro you might be able to bring out the sound you want - the manual should describe what is possible.
Also, vintage clavinets would usually have been played through a guitar cabinet or an electric piano cabinet, which have different sounds to our modern clean, high powered keyboard amps and PAs. The Kurzweil boards have amp modelling effects that simulate EP and guitar cabinets, and this helps gives a vintage sound. I don't know if the Electro can do this or not. If it can't, try using a vintage style guitar amp or amp modeller. Amp modellers are pretty cheap these days.
The D6 manual suggests using the EQ on the amp in conjunction with the register switches.
"The register switches (5, Fig. 1) vary the tone, whereby the treble and bass regulators on the amplifier should be suitably set to obtain the required balanced tone effect."
Michael
Mike,
Thanks for the input, I forgot about the Clav filter and Clav pickup options and adjustments on the Electro. I'll experiment with them tonight and see what I find.
Regards,
Joe
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#1943107 - 05/16/08 01:23 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: Chaso DeChaso]
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MusicWorkz
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Obvious advice would be "Uhh, open your ears" - in other words, go listen to the stuff. But being one of those limited people who over-relies on 'the dots' I wonder if there are any instruction/exercise/patterns books anyone could also recommend to supplement by lame ears.
Sorry to say, you just gave your own answer in this.
One of the key ingredients to letting the clavi rip has LITTLE or NOTHING to do with the "dots". It is ALL about the feel and the timing, all about the rhythm that the syncopation is juxtaposed against.
You HAVE to feel it and hear it. That is the first thing anyone who knows will pick up when they hear it, so that is where you should start.
So, go find some records you like and learn to play the part WITH it and at tempo...
Edited by MusicWorkz (05/16/08 01:25 PM)
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#1943197 - 05/16/08 05:54 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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percussion boy
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Gail Johnson's book FUNK KEYBOARDS has some clav exercises and pointers, like the way clav parts can involve rocking the hand and how they sometimes fall in certain keys, like Ebm, because of the way the scale falls physically on the keyboard. There's a cd too.
The Hal Leonard collection R&B/Note for Note Transcriptions has a two clav arrangement of "Superstition," I don't know how accurate it is.
[edited for clarity and typos]
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#1943601 - 05/17/08 10:42 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: percussion boy]
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niacin
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There is a Hal Leonard Stevie Wonder transcriptions not-for-note book. Pretty accurate. Probably the same as in the R&B book mentioned.
The Gail Johnson book is ok but very basic. The chapter on funk in Mark Harrison's Pop Piano book is better.
But really youtube and Herbie's album "Thrust" will get you all you need. The drumming paradiddles suggestion is great too. Stanton Moore has a new DVD out on New Orleans drumming. Might be just the thing.
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#1950376 - 05/30/08 06:26 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: MONTUNOMAN]
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Chaso DeChaso
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As far as books go, try adgproductions.com
Andrew Gordon has written some good books dealing with pop styles.
Thanks to everyone on the thread for all the advice.
I know I need to do a lot of listening and working on my ears (in general - not only for clav!). That's actually the highest priority to me over the next couple years.
I also just picked up a couple of these Andrew Gordon books and will be using them as direct practice and to help dissect some of the logic of the types of clav parts I am wishing to learn and to create.
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#1950441 - 05/30/08 08:48 AM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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tucktronix
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Obvious advice would be "Uhh, open your ears" - in other words, go listen to the stuff. But being one of those limited people who over-relies on 'the dots' I wonder if there are any instruction/exercise/patterns books anyone could also recommend to supplement by lame ears. Sorry to say, you just gave your own answer in this. One of the key ingredients to letting the clavi rip has LITTLE or NOTHING to do with the "dots". It is ALL about the feel and the timing, all about the rhythm that the syncopation is juxtaposed against. You HAVE to feel it and hear it. That is the first thing anyone who knows will pick up when they hear it, so that is where you should start. So, go find some records you like and learn to play the part WITH it and at tempo...
I have to agree with MusicWorkz on this. Jamming is a great way to develop feel and timing, whether you're jamming with other musicians, or to a funk tune on a CD. Also, listen to some early tracks from Stevie, George Duke and Billy Preston, listen to how far apart the notes are. The more you listen and practice, the better your timing and feel will be.
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#1950634 - 05/30/08 01:54 PM
Re: Learning funky clav
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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meccajay
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First...check out a wah wah pedal.
So, go find some records you like and learn to play the part WITH it and at tempo...
Here's a wonderful place to start for both of those ideas!
Streakin' Cheek To Cheek
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