#1942359 - 05/15/08 12:01 AM
Will I be able to achieve this? (Classical Piano)
|
mikecorbett
Senior Member
Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Halifax
|
Offline
|
|
hey guys,
Im about to move abroad again. Ive been a gigging keyboard player for 15 years and have always made a living from it untill recently. It seems there are less gigs around, maybe its just where I am, but Im getting older and think I need to do something to upgrade my skills so I cn survive. My wife wants to have a baby and its kinda that time in life where you realise you have to up your game in general.
so, thing is, Im a pretty good musician, but entirely self taught. I have pretty good right hand technique, can get through jazz gigs, latin and funk no probs (though Im not a smokin jazz player by any means). I cant read music!
what I want to do is take an english degree and at the same time study piano, so that when I return home in four years, I will be able to take piano exams up to grade 10 (Royal Canadian). This I hope will provide me with some options...a bMus , piano teaching or perhaps taking some music courses and an education program with a view to being a high school teacher in English and music. I just never want to find myself in the position I've been in recently again. I was seriously considering pumping gas as things were rough before I decided to move to a steady gig in Spain.
Considering I would have to start at the very begining as my left hand is great at popping chords and basslines but I could hardly pull of an even c major scale over 2 octaves! Will I be able to achieve this goal in 4 years?
any input, tips, advice or thoughts would be greatly appreciated and I head off for foriegn lands in 10 days. I believe I will be able to find a teacher there and will buy an electric piano there.
any suggestions please!!
thanks so much
Mike
_________________________
Thank God for MIDI, what would we do with all the modules.....?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942389 - 05/15/08 04:21 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: mikecorbett]
|
spotty
Senior Member
Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 166
Loc: Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
4 years to reach grade 10 will require serious work. Physically, your left hand is nowhere near what its gonna have to be. But the bigger part will be the development of expression and control in you playing. It ain't about just being able to play the notes, its about all the subtle nuances and control of emotion too. And if you can't read music, start learning NOW! You should not only be able to read to learn a piece, but (especially if you plan to teach) be able to sight read on the fly at least half decently.
I don't want to discourage you, if you work hard you might do it, but you've got some things to do.
Hanon keyboard exercises would be a great start.
-And..(I'm gonna take heat for this) get an acoustic piano, a good one.
Edited by spotty (05/15/08 04:23 AM)
_________________________
Hammond T-212
M-Audio Axiom 61
Native Instruments B4 II
Z3TA
MyOrgan
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942396 - 05/15/08 04:37 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: spotty]
|
DanS
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/14/00
Posts: 3493
Loc: Montréal
|
|
Offline
|
|
It's a tall order, no doubt.
I did grade 7 Conservatory exams when I was 11 or 12 and going to school, but I'd already been taking lessons for 5-6 years.
Like anything, if you put the time in, you 'should' be ok?
I have no idea what the requirements are for grade 10 though.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942431 - 05/15/08 06:45 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: delirium]
|
Dave E
Senior Member
Registered: 03/12/07
Posts: 152
Loc: San Antonio, TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
Getting your skills/credentials together well enough to teach is a wonderful idea. There aren't near enough teachers out there with real world gigging experience. I did ten years in the public schools and found it VERY rewarding. Best of luck to you.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942433 - 05/15/08 06:52 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: delirium]
|
VLH
Senior Member
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 196
|
|
Offline
|
|
Delirium has it with the baby--that wee side story in your opening paragraph is the elephant in the room. Since no one else is looking at that, I'll dive in and take the arrows.
There is no such thing as "quality time" with children if you don't back it up with really serious "quantity time." Babies turn into kids quickly and in both forms, they need lots of time and money--and your partner will need significant extra help and attention, as childbearing can really sap strength before and after for a good year. Bank on an extra 3-6 hours daily just in childrearing and adapting to your new family--especially in the 3 months before baby and the 12 months after. And they keep changing for a good 18 years (longer if it's a boy), so you have to keep adapting, too.
Four things that will be very helpful: extraordinary self-discipline, the ability to compartmentalize your life pursuits, learning to be a cheery and devoted partner and parent on about 4 hours of sleep a night while you pursue these multiple goals, and a partner who gets what you are trying to do and why. Three of those are under your control.
English is a serious study, too...so a question missing here is--Can you take on all THREE of these pursuits (English, piano, family) simultaneously?
People can do amazing things when they want to.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942743 - 05/15/08 06:11 PM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: VLH]
|
mikecorbett
Senior Member
Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Halifax
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for all the replies fellas. Plenty of food for thought.
VLH, thanks, now I'm really scared! haha. Thankfully I've a wonderful partner, so it really is up to me. What we would have going for us is that in Spain we have an abundance of time on our hands. I work three hours a night, 6 nights a week, but thats it. She doesnt need to work while we are there. I know that the English study may seem like asking too much of myself, but I genuinly read alot and love to write also. It was always my favorite subject in school after music, so I'm counting on that not being completely life-consuming. As for a baby...how can I know?? dear God...
Gangsu, I would greatly appreciate it if you could send me over the requirements. I also hear you on perhaps setting the goal a little lower and aiming for the 3 grade(level, lol) 9 pieces for a bMus audition. I guess my follow-up question to that would be, would I be a frauster to offer piano lessons if I hadn't completed my grade 10? Assuming of course that my sight reading was acceptable and I wasn't just able to play those 3 pieces!? I feel like I would be able to offer a potential student a different take on aspects of music. I play a broad range of styles and have spent years in studios and on the road. Both my parents are/were classical music teachers (Piano and violin) but I definetly approach it from the other side of the street.
Spotty, I'd love a real acoustic piano, its what I taught myself on growing up but in apartment life in Spain, your never guaranteed you can stay in one place for more than a year. Not to mention the seriously thin walls and neighbours... Yes, the neighbours are thin... they smoke, they dont need to eat! So I guess I'll be revisiting the "Best weighted action" threads sometime soon.
Once again, thank you all. My weak left hand and squinty eyes shall curse you as I sweat my way through Hanons finest. Wish me luck,
Mike
_________________________
Thank God for MIDI, what would we do with all the modules.....?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942841 - 05/16/08 05:03 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: gangsu]
|
daviel
Platinum Member
Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 1805
Loc: Waxahachie,TX, USA
|
Online
|
|
You can do it. Start woodshedding and get a head start - this sounds like it will be enjoyable!
_________________________
"It was a beautiful day, the sun beat down.I had the radio on, I was drivin'
The trees went by, me and del were singin a little runaway, I was flyin' "
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1942854 - 05/16/08 05:52 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: daviel]
|
MikeT156
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 4647
Loc: Central PA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Quote by Spotty:
"Hanon keyboard exercises would be a great start."
And I'll suggest doing scales the full length of the KB with both hands in parallel and contrary directions, all keys. I'm sure you know your major scales, so you can add minor scales too. Scales are not about just learning the scales, its about building finger strength and muscle tone. My piano teacher told me to do the above and practice slowly, being sure to sound each note with each hand with the same duration (for starters) then start practicing FF on one hand while playing PF or PP on the other hand. Switch which hand does what. There are many classical pieces that have passages with different volumes for each hand and those practice drills are a good start at playing more expressively. The goal is to develop complete hand and finger independence.
Bella Bartok piano solo series is an excellent way to develop that independence once you get past the above. My piano teacher told me that if I could master the first 3 books in the Bartok series (there are 6) that I would be able to play "just about any" classical piece worth playing.
Now, how you are going to muster all that in addition to dealing with a baby, is beyond me. Good Luck.
Mike T.
_________________________
Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Suit case 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Mk III, Oberheim DMX, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist. Lots of Amps, mixers, PA speakers!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942857 - 05/16/08 05:55 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: MikeT156]
|
Joe Muscara
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 2159
Loc: Houston, TX
|
|
Online
|
|
My piano teacher told me to do the above and practice slowly, being sure to sound each note with each hand with the same duration (for starters) then start practicing FF on one hand while playing PF on the other hand. Switch which hand does what. There are many classical pieces that have passages with different volumes for each hand and those practice drills are a good start to at playing more expressively. The goal is to develop complete hand and finger independence.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1942860 - 05/16/08 06:05 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: Joe Muscara]
|
MikeT156
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 4647
Loc: Central PA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Quote by Joe Muscara:
"I had a teacher that had me doing things like that with Hanon including staccato in one hand and legato in the other, so I'd suggest that as well."
That's right! I had forgotten about that. Its good practice. 
Mike T.
_________________________
Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Suit case 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Mk III, Oberheim DMX, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist. Lots of Amps, mixers, PA speakers!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942870 - 05/16/08 06:34 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: MikeT156]
|
VLH
Senior Member
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 196
|
|
Offline
|
|
You might purchase only two books to get your LH-RH independence and keep you busy for several years:
-Bach 2-part inventions; and
-Book 1 of the Bach's Well Tempered Klavier.
Try the Bach 2-part Inventions to begin work on your LH and on reading. Work on them slowly, hands separately--LH first, to gain independence of hands.
From Bach Well Tempered Klavier book 1:
c-min prelude (2)
C#-maj prelude (3)
e-min prelude (10)
a-min prelude (20)
Not too hard when slow and excellent mind-hand training.
Don't mess with those fugues from that book yet--wait till you can get a teacher. And for all of these, don't ever work for speed. Just learn to play them very very slowly, like a meditation. Work for complete independence so that whatever articulation one hand plays, the other can mimic it exactly (since the hands take turns echoing each other). You need to reach a point where it sounds and feels as though two musicians are at work, one operating your LH and one operating your RH--and where your "mind" is the audience, listening to them perform. (I still would like to reach that point! ; ))
Fun, easy to play, and lovely, is the first Prelude in C from Book 1 of Well-Tempered Klavier. Also, it's a perfect lullabye when the new baby arrives--music just doesn't get more peaceful than that composition. One of the most satisfying pieces of music from any era, and thank goodness, it's technically easy. (But it will not help much with the independence--just make it your "reward" for the other work.)
Hanon can be OK as a bit of relief from these, because the exercises are so logical that they are easier to remember and you can focus your mind solely on the mechanics.
But, I think you will gain superior independence benefits from these as they stretch your mind into 2 parts.
Caveat: I don't teach and am not familiar with the academy system you've brought up. But these are a few of the pieces I've been trained on just to solve the exact problems you mentioned.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1942923 - 05/16/08 07:58 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: MikeT156]
|
MONTUNOMAN
Senior Member
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 275
|
|
Offline
|
|
Do I understand you correctly? You want to be a high school English and/or music teacher? Have you thought about teaching Spanish (I assume that's your first language) Here in the USA there is a great need for Spanish teachers. Can you sing? Maybe you could teach choir or general elementary music- I'm sure your piano skills are good or allmost good enough for a choir director or general elementary music. Do you have a degree? Here in the USA as long as you have a degree, take some education classes and pass the state test you can teach. I taught ESL, Spanish (high school) bilingual elementary and general elemenatary music although my degree is in bussiness administration (from a Mexican university). I do elementary music now and it's a blast. My piano skills are probably not even close to "10". I read lead sheets, play mostly Lain, American standards and some easy classical. I'm starting to seriously work on my voice thanks to the enouragement of the forum members here.
BTW, my first instrument is percussion and didn't seriously take up keyboards until around the time my daughter was born. She's now five and during these years I've practiced my at least 3 hours a day (up to eight during the summer) Anyways my marrage is in good shape and I spend plenty of quality time with both my wife a daughter. I now have two steady gigs playing solo keys.
My point is if you set your mind to it you can achieve your goals and also you should explore your opptions- don't let some instutional rating value your musical abilities. I bet at least half the people at this "royal academy" couldn't play the types of gigs you that you do- especailly while starting a new family, study a foriegn language and moving to a new country.
good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943277 - 05/17/08 12:19 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: MONTUNOMAN]
|
mikecorbett
Senior Member
Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Halifax
|
|
Offline
|
|
Once again, thank you all,
Im pretty excited!
Gangsu,
thanks for the encouragement and sending me on that info. Your classy!
Daviel, I hope it will be enjoyable, I really do. I feel like I'm about to treat myself. Thanks for the support buddy.
Mike, Joe, VLH and Sue
Wow, thats great information. Ive already put all your suggestions down in my day-timer. You guys have obhiously been through this yourselves and I appreaciate you all sharing your experience.
MontunoMan,
Haha, Im Irish. My first language is English, my second Irish and my third Spanish! I love latin music with a passion too. My favorite feeling in the world is being on stage with a tight latin band, rockin a montuno and singing a choro...while all the people dance... heaven for me.
Seriously, your story is really inspiring to me that you took up piano 5 years ago and are now doing really well. Thanks for your kind support also.
I'm really going to go for it. I feel so much better about knowing what to do now and also so encouraged by all of your kindness. In honor of you people I will make some videos of how its all going and post links here in the coming months.
Music is so awesome how it brings us all together
lots a love back at you all
Mike
_________________________
Thank God for MIDI, what would we do with all the modules.....?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943467 - 05/17/08 12:59 PM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: Cliffk]
|
gangsu
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 4007
|
|
Offline
|
|
uhh
_________________________
"........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943469 - 05/17/08 01:03 PM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: gangsu]
|
gangsu
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/12/04
Posts: 4007
|
|
Offline
|
|
Wait a minute. Isn't that something special you say to old people?
_________________________
"........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943473 - 05/17/08 01:08 PM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: gangsu]
|
Cliffk
Gold Member
Registered: 03/22/05
Posts: 793
Loc: London
|
|
Offline
|
|
Old? Please! Hehe, sorry if I've embarrassed you, Sue - it's just you're a bright spirit, and that's a blessed thing to be. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943511 - 05/17/08 03:11 PM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: gangsu]
|
daviel
Platinum Member
Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 1805
Loc: Waxahachie,TX, USA
|
|
Online
|
|
If you are following your muse and your heart you can do it, job, baby, school practicing and all, and you'll love it because you are doing the things you are here to do!
_________________________
"It was a beautiful day, the sun beat down.I had the radio on, I was drivin'
The trees went by, me and del were singin a little runaway, I was flyin' "
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943707 - 05/18/08 08:04 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: daviel]
|
Byrdman
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 10/12/01
Posts: 2876
Loc: Portland,OR,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Have you thought about getting a teaching credential in Jazz rather than Classical? Also, have you checked with the relevant education authorities on options they might be able to offer you - seems like you already have quite a lot to offer, and you may be able to teach and pursue further qualifications while doing it.
A lot of places these days here in the US require a one year teaching certificate before one is licensed to teach. So even though I have a master of science, I could not get a teaching job (not that I need to)
Don't forget about history of music and theory as well. As a jazz player, the first levels of theory (strict counterpoint) are going to look weird and useless. That's only because they are weird and useless - its simply a tool, rather akin to a joiner learning to use a mallett and chisel even though all the real work will be done with power tools.
_________________________
Et Tu Brutu! -- Julius Caesar; Julius Caesar! -- Ettu Brutu
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1943748 - 05/18/08 09:28 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: Byrdman]
|
Griffinator
10k Club
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 10217
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
That's only because they are weird and useless - its simply a tool, rather akin to a joiner learning to use a mallett and chisel even though all the real work will be done with power tools.
Completely OT, but I was watching Top Chef on Bravo last night, and one of the real stunning moments was when, as part of a time-trial challenge, the chefs had to make a quart of mayonnaise by hand - one team completely freaked because, as they put it "I always used a robo-coupe" - they ended up losing the challenge not because they couldn't make the mayo, but because one of chefs couldn't strip an artichoke without breaking the stem...
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1944968 - 05/20/08 09:20 AM
Re: Will I be able to achive this? (Classical Piano)
[Re: Byrdman]
|
mikecorbett
Senior Member
Registered: 01/14/06
Posts: 131
Loc: Halifax
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks all of you!
Sue, it seems like I got your measure..classy, haha. You telling me your not a hot 18 year old? damn!
I'm looking into all options. Byrdman, to be honest, I don't just want to be a jazz teacher. I guess I feel like the language of music underpins all styles and I want to be able to illustrate that. I also feel that if someone is crazily drawn to jazz, there going to figure lots of it out themselves. Mind you, at that point I'd love to have the ability to help them extend that passion. As it is, I got lots of work to do before I can teach anything.
We move from Canada to Spain in September. I'm on my way to Spain for a month in a few days to set things up. I will have the rest of the summer in Canada to start lessons and get going on all your suggestions. I'm totally going to update you guys from Spain, keep you posted on my adventure!
thanks one and all,
Mike
_________________________
Thank God for MIDI, what would we do with all the modules.....?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner
|
|
|
On the other hand the ear tests would be a piece of cake. 
Ok, I guess I won't rap your knuckles. 
