#1942188 - 05/14/08 02:37 PM
What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
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bloodyMary
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Registered: 12/22/04
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Today I was offered to choose inexpensive pair of studio monitors for use at home, as a gift from my family. I thought it's a good idea, since I mostly run my keys (see my signature) through FP4's built-in speakers or headphones. I'm also doing some occasional recording and demo mixing, so monitors would be good for that, too.
I figured, before I make them buy me something, I'll see what other people are using.
Question - are you using studio monitors to play keys, at home or in studio? If not, then is it a keyboard amp, or set of PA speakers?
I'm looking at Samson Rubicon, M-audio BX and other models of similar pricing, 5, 6.5, and 8 inch. Is it going to be an improvement over FP4's built-in speakers (I feel that they lack bass response, but sound nice overall) or semi-decent (stereo 3-way Kenwood speakers and amp, 100 watt x2, with 6.5" woofers) hifi-stereo which is currently hooked up to my PC?
Oh yeah, and my keyboard/living room isn't acoustically treated, and unlikely to become one. So I don't demand flat response, just nice(r) sound - more 'open', 'deep', 'detailed'. Will I get this?
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Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942224 - 05/14/08 04:18 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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MusicWorkz
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I use Event TR-8 XL's....Solid bass, great mids and highs...
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#1942317 - 05/14/08 09:13 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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bloodyMary
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MusicWorkz,how big is the room they're placed in?
I fear that an 8" set might be an overkill for my untreated, small (~12x15 feet) room.
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Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942325 - 05/14/08 09:36 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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MusicWorkz
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About the same size, semi-untreated (carpeted w/ no acoustic foam yet) 12' W x 16' with 6.5-7' ceilings. Trust me, you'll never regret the 8" woofer for the bottom it gives...
_________________________
Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330, R-8). Novation (A & V-Stations, Remote LE), Akai MPC 2000XL Studio http://www.myspace.com/ieg_musicworkz
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#1942338 - 05/14/08 10:23 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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bloodyMary
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Thanx MusicWorkz! I'm really considering 8 inches now. More opinions?
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942343 - 05/14/08 10:32 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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SK
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I have the FP4 with KRK powered speakers at home. It's definitely worth adding on to the FP4.
The only thing is the FP4 speakers are pretty loud, although they don't sound great. So they will exceed the volume of some studio monitors, unless you use a mixer (as I do) or turn the FP4's internal speakers off. I like using both for a fuller sound, with the FP4 volume slightly lower. The KRK's sound great to me, and a huge improvement over the FP4's speakers.
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#1942349 - 05/14/08 11:00 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: SK]
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timwat
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I use Mackie HR624s at home - for everything.
True studio monitors will be a big improvement - but not every small powered speaker advertised as a "studio monitor" really responds like one.
The smaller M-Audio units (BX5) are confused little puppies, anemic and conflicted, and the Yamaha powered speakers (Guitar Center uses about 80 of them in their keyboard room) are juiced so bass heavy as to really be unusable as studio monitors. But that's an entirely different thread.
If you're never going to use them to actually monitor a recording you're working on, I'd certainly agree that 6" to 8" woofer will provide more of a bottom foundation for digital piano than 5" or smaller. It isn't so much a matter of overkill, as you get to determine the end volume, but rather at a chosen volume level what overall timbre your powered speakers present for you.
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#1942351 - 05/14/08 11:25 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: timwat]
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bloodyMary
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I use Mackie HR624s at home - for everything.
If you're never going to use them to actually monitor a recording you're working on, I'd certainly agree that 6" to 8" woofer will provide more of a bottom foundation for digital piano than 5" or smaller. It isn't so much a matter of overkill, as you get to determine the end volume, but rather at a chosen volume level what overall timbre your powered speakers present for you.
and if I want to use them for occasional monitoring? I'll record demos and mix them - not radio quality. Also, I might want to record (not mix) keys for an album at home to save studio time for drums and guitars.
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942358 - 05/14/08 11:51 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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timwat
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and if I want to use them for occasional monitoring? I'll record demos and mix them - not radio quality. Also, I might want to record (not mix) keys for an album at home to save studio time for drums and guitars.
Well, that becomes a really big question with all sorts of opinions - What is a reasonably priced set (about $500 for the pair, right?) of powered monitors that can be used for real recording?
I don't know the answer to that question - all of my limited and anecdotal experience with monitors in that price range didn't end happily ever after. I've tried the BX5s, Yamaha MSP5s, and a few others I don't recall, and could never get my mixes to translate well.
Now that could simply be because I'm a rank amateur and don't pretend to be a real engineer. But after I coughed up the cash for the 624s (which BTW I preferred to the larger 824s), my mixes all translated a lot better to other systems up and down. Even my pro buddies confirmed that.
Sorry I can't be more helpful, perhaps someone with direct (and successful) experience with the units & price range you're considering can chime in.
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#1942366 - 05/15/08 12:34 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: timwat]
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bloodyMary
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Timwat, why did you prefer smaller monitors?
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942391 - 05/15/08 04:23 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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DanS
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Room size is 11 x 17.
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#1942403 - 05/15/08 05:06 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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gangsu
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I don't demand flat response, just nice(r) sound - more 'open', 'deep', 'detailed'.
It's funny. When I stop to consider the thousands I've spent on digital music in the past few years, the amount I've spent on 'monitors' is ridiculously nothing. Klipsch 2.1 multimedia speakers. Still going strong and I still love them. It's almost embarrassing. You'd think I have no ears.
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"........! Try to make It..REAL! compared to what? ! ! ! " - BOPBEEPER
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#1942404 - 05/15/08 05:14 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: gangsu]
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bloodyMary
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Gangsu, can your Klipsch set handle the dynamic range of keyboards?
When I tried plugging keyboards into multimedia speaker system or decent home stereo, the sound seemed 'flat' in a bad way - there was little dynamic range. Digging into keys produced noise, like distortion - the input was overdriven. IMHO these are designed for compressed modern music where everything fits in 10db range. At least cheaper models. Are Klipsch considered hi-end? Never heard of the brand, probably because it's better than average Sony/JBL/JVC/Kenwood/etc.
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942406 - 05/15/08 05:25 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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Bosendorphin
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I've been using Polk Audio speakers (locally made) for almost 19 years and they've been great for all the soundtrack work and CDs I've done in that time. Nice flat response, good bass response.
_________________________
"I may not be a first-rate composer, but I am a first-class second-rate composer!" - Richard Strauss
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#1942496 - 05/15/08 09:07 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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timwat
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Registered: 11/21/01
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(Reply to bloodymary about why the smaller 624s instead of the larger 824s)
To my ears, the 824s sound a bit juiced in the bottom end compared to the 624s. I'm not talking just sheer low end volume, as obviously the 624s drop off their speaking voice as you go deep before the 824s.
As I A/B'd them with a variety of material, I thought the 624s were more cohesive in their transition in the mid and lower octaves, while the 824s pushed the low end forward in a way that was perfectly acceptable in, say, a rock, dance or similar setting, but a little unnatural in an acoustic jazz setting. To my ears they also did a much better job on female vocals (one of the most revealing tests) than the 824s.
I also find that I track and mix at a little lower volume than I used to (and lower than a few other engineers I've worked with), and the 624s 'blossom' at quieter volumes than the 824s.
I hope some of this makes sense, I'm trying to articulate my auditory comparisons and not sure I have the right vocabulary. Suffice to say it wasn't at all a question of small vs. large, but a question of timbral balance at different volume levels, with a wide range of music and genres.
At the end of the day, you learn to mix with the speakers you have, right? The challenge is getting your mixes to sound good on most common systems - and you can do that with crappy-sounding monitors (I've seen guys do it) but it just takes a ton of compensating and work. Of course, a bad engineer can easily produce a stupid bad mix using the best monitors out there, as well. I've produced a few of those too. LOL
Edited by timwat (05/15/08 09:25 AM)
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#1942576 - 05/15/08 12:30 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: timwat]
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Cliffk
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I do my regular playing through KRK V8 monitors - they're loud but tight and the big low end is great for soul and funk. I also use them when listening to CDs in the styles of music I write in, which naturally helps when it comes to mixing. If I'm stretching out, though, I pull out the big JBL 15 guns. 
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#1942593 - 05/15/08 12:59 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: Cliffk]
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Musicale
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Registered: 01/11/08
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You might check out Audiogon.com. This a a virtual treasure trove of used audiophile equipment for me for a long time. Pretty much have anything you might need. Well cared for equipment at reasonable prices.
Regards,
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#1942667 - 05/15/08 03:05 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: Musicale]
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bloodyMary
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Thanks for replies and opinions, guys!
I've come back from the store with a pair of Yamaha HS80M speakers. 8" woofers, plenty of headroom. More expensive than what I thought of spending, but really nice.
The store had only Samsons (5,6,and 8" sizes), and two Yamahas (5 and 8"). I went there with my dad, who's also a musician, and he convinced me to go for Yamaha. It was also the most expensive thing they had in stock, on the floor.
HS80's sound much smoother, nicer, then Samsons. My mixes (I brought a CD with two raw mixes, full of mistakes) sounded sweeter through the Yamaha, which might be a bad thing. But again, I'm mostly going to run keys through the set up, and pleasant sound is nice for this.
During the evening I've enjoyed playing various music, as well as a couple of my songs, and playing the Roland piano through the speakers. I love the sound, it's very 'comfortable'. They can go very loud too.
They produce a light hiss when hooked up, but that's because of my mixer, which is a piece of crap - zeroing gain on active channels killed the hiss.
Overall, I love the speakers. Not sure whether they'll do better for mixing then Samson (which sounded uglier), but for playing keys and listening to music - awesome.
The only trouble now is - as every monitor speaker, Yamaha has no speaker grill. And I have a cat, which loves destroying expensive things. So I'll pick up speaker grills from car audio store and put them on with double-sided adhesive tape. Not nice, but will keep away the cat. Opinions on this?
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1942686 - 05/15/08 03:46 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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forceman
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Hey, whatever works.. Congrats on your new gear!
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#1942698 - 05/15/08 04:08 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: forceman]
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timwat
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Congrats on the new speakers.
Anything that keeps the cat off your new purchase works - including getting rid of the cat.
Hope you enjoy them and get plenty of mileage out of them.
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#1942728 - 05/15/08 05:14 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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DanS
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Not nice, but will keep away the cat. Opinions on this?
Electrify the grills?
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#1943472 - 05/17/08 01:07 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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richwhite9
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The only trouble now is - as every monitor speaker, Yamaha has no speaker grill. And I have a cat, which loves destroying expensive things. So I'll pick up speaker grills from car audio store and put them on with double-sided adhesive tape. Not nice, but will keep away the cat. Opinions on this?
Cats love speaker grills. Way better than those cheap scratching posts you can buy at a Petco. It's a popular topic on pet forums.
Sometimes they like speakers too:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vintage/messages/14/149386.html
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#1945032 - 05/20/08 11:19 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: delirium]
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bloodyMary
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My cat shows no interest in the speakers,which is great. Still, I feel that covering the woofers will protect them from all kinds of accidents. I'm clumsy, you know...
_________________________
Korg Karma, Roland FP4, Yamaha S03 (retired), Korg K25, IBM laptop, Yamaha HS80M monitors - the new toy.
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#1945033 - 05/20/08 11:20 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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DanS
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Look at it this way, if big gobs of wax are getting into the woofers, you're sitting too close.
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#1945037 - 05/20/08 11:25 AM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: DanS]
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ITGITC?
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Room size is 11 x 17.
Dan,
What is your home address again?
Thank you,
Tom
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"I used to wish I had a lever on my piano to ... well, you know." - Learjeff ................................ Is There Gas in the Car? 
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#1945068 - 05/20/08 01:26 PM
Re: What amplification do you use with keys at home/studio?
[Re: ITGITC?]
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DanS
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I lubs them, I really do.
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No pressure to upgrade as I don't do any demanding studio work. 
