#1941951 - 05/14/08 04:52 AM
Instrument cables
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DavidMPires
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I know I know this has been discussed ten thousand times, so I reckon that we should do it once again.
I'm out shopping for a cable.
I have been using a dimarzio one with coloured tweed on the outside for about 6 years and has been great, I also have the fender bass gold series, but that's the one I use at home or studio because it's a short lead. I have this gig coming up and I need to buy a decent cable. I don't like the ones with rubber outside because they always end up with laces and all messed up.
I saw the mosnter ones, but reviews here have been ambiguous, also elixir has cables on the market and they are expensive as hell. Any good? I don't know never tried them.
I'm open to sugestions...
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#1941967 - 05/14/08 05:29 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: DavidMPires]
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Davo-London
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I have mega-expensive Evidence Audio and cheapy Whirlwind. Can I tell the difference?
Davo
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#1941977 - 05/14/08 05:45 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Davo-London]
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rizzo9247
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I have a 30 foot (9.15m) Monster Cable. Not that I need thirty feet, but you never know when I need to repel down the side of a building.
I am no help in the cable discussion because I wouldn't know if it's superior to other cables I have used in the past (LiveWire generic Fender, Ernie Ball, etc), but all I know is that after a half hour of moving around the thing gets tangled so much I am left with only a few feet (1.22m)
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#1941979 - 05/14/08 05:50 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: rizzo9247]
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Luke73
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I use Planet Waves cables.
...not because I think I can hear the difference or anything like that, but simply because if I ever cut one up or break one, they'll give me a brand new one for free - unconditionally.
Can't argue with that.

Unless I lose one or they go out of business I should never have to buy another cable.
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#1942007 - 05/14/08 06:38 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Luke73]
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SteveC
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I have a 20 ft. cable I made myself with SwitchCraft ends. I have no idea what the cable is - something that was laying around the store. I have used it for years without fail. (Now that I said that I'm sure it will at the next gig.)
I have used a few different cables, nothing like Monster, Canare, etc., but I'm sure that there must be SOME reason why companies charge $100 a foot for some of that really high end stuff.
The people listening to me at any of our venues sure as hell couldn't tell the difference and I'm not sure I can either.
Edited by SteveC (05/14/08 06:40 AM)
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#1942017 - 05/14/08 06:50 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: SteveC]
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cassius
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Monster Cables: boooooo. All of mine have subsisted on a year-long lifespan and then went unreliable or dead. Sure there's a warranty, but it's a matter of principal for me that I shouldn't have to replace my cables annually.
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#1942021 - 05/14/08 06:51 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: SteveC]
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Sanvean
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I use a 20' Monster cable and a few mid range types. I can't really tell any difference sound wise, but what I have noticed is the Monster's construction. The mid range cables tend to loosen on the plug sleeve. *SHruG*
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#1942024 - 05/14/08 06:53 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: cassius]
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Sanvean
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Monster Cables: boooooo. All of mine have subsisted on a year-long lifespan and then went unreliable or dead. Sure there's a warranty, but it's a matter of principal for me that I shouldn't have to replace my cables annually.
Lol... I have heard that, but I haven't run into that. Guess it's hit or miss.
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#1942041 - 05/14/08 07:13 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Sanvean]
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Flemtone
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I use Planet Waves and Monster, mostly because of the return policy. Problem with Monster is that you need a receipt to exchange one. With PW, just walk in the door with the bad one and a new one is placed in your hands. No receipt needed.
In all honesty, I find the PW cables more durable than Monster.
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#1942042 - 05/14/08 07:15 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Sanvean]
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Phil W
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George L's come recommended. I use Mogami right now. I'd use Planet Waves but they won't fit in my Wal with its recessed jack.
The rumour about Monster Cables is that they have a slightly wider jack that ensures food contact with the Monsters but bends the contacts and so makes the connection worse for normal size jacks.
I have not seen any confirmation of that though.
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#1942085 - 05/14/08 08:16 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Phil W]
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natobasso
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Longer cables degrade your sound. There's actually a great review of a cable in this month's Bass Player Magazine by Elixir.
Long and short, though, get a reinforced cable unless you like being able to access the tips and fix the wiring yourself.
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#1942090 - 05/14/08 08:19 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Phil W]
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yourlord
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I use whatever cheap piece of crap cable is hanging on the shelf.. I have about 6 I use constantly, and have been using them for about 8 years now with no failures. They all sound just fine..
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#1942097 - 05/14/08 08:40 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: yourlord]
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Nicklab
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I know a guy who constantly raves about his solid silver cables. I've heard him play, and honestly his tone didn't sound so much better that I felt compelled to get a solid silver cable.
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#1942115 - 05/14/08 09:22 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Flemtone]
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tnb
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Problem with Monster is that you need a receipt to exchange one.
Since when? I haven't "purchased" a MC in years. By years I mean since at least 2000 and I do a couple of hundred gigs a year. I have never been asked for a receipt. I also make it a point to replace them long before they go bad.
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#1942117 - 05/14/08 09:28 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: tnb]
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DavidMPires
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You do need a receipt for the Fender ones...
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#1942141 - 05/14/08 12:59 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: DavidMPires]
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jeremy c
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I can hear a difference between cables, but not when the whole band is playing.
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#1942159 - 05/14/08 01:19 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: jeremy c]
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DavidMPires
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I can hear a difference between cables, but not when the whole band is playing.
Same here
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#1942163 - 05/14/08 01:29 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Luke73]
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jcadmus
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I use Planet Waves cables. ...not because I think I can hear the difference or anything like that, but simply because if I ever cut one up or break one, they'll give me a brand new one for free - unconditionally. Can't argue with that.  Unless I lose one or they go out of business I should never have to buy another cable. Same deal with Monster, about the same price -- they've already replaced one for me gratis.
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#1942225 - 05/14/08 04:20 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: DavidMPires]
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b5pilot
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I got a Monster bass cable for Christmas. It seems kind of stiff and its pricey but it seems to work well. I don't hear any glaring differences between it and other lower priced cables though.
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#1942229 - 05/14/08 04:25 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Mudcat]
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Bumpcity
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Planet Waves cables or Mogami w/Neutrik connectors for patch cords.
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#1942283 - 05/14/08 06:36 PM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: kenfxj]
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_Sweet Willie_
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I get Butch from Bayou Audio to hook me up with cables. Juicy.
Peace. --s-uu
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#1942450 - 05/15/08 07:43 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: RicBassGuy]
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Mudcat
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Regardless of the cable, you can avoid damaging them by learning how to properly wrap it when not in use. Don't wrap it between your hand and elbow (a surefire way to fatigue the metal and get a short over time). Wrap it like you would a garden hose. Hold one end in one hand and then flip the rest of the cable over it one wrap at a time with your other hand. This way you avoid any undue stress. Trust me on this. I went to a university to learn this technique. I think I need to see the video. I'm not quite picturing in my head what you're describing. Of course, with a short garden hose I will sometimes wrap it between my hand and elbow. I think your point is that a garden hose is less likely to twist than a patch cord, and it's the twisting that fatigues the cord.
I wish I could describe this better. The idea is to not put ANY undue stress on the cord as it is coiled. I will give it another shot: 1) Hold one end of the cord in your right hand with the connector facing toward you. 2)Grasp the cable about 18 inches down in your left hand. 3) Pull the cable towards yourself then flip it up and over your open right hand to form a coil. 4) Repeat until the cord is completely coiled. 5) DO NOT TIE THE CABLE OFF WITH ITSELF! Use a cable tie if necessary. I've never needed one but I've never carried more than four 20 foot cords to a gig. The coils always held together well enough on their own in my gig bag.
Shouldn't we use something like those things that roll up garden hoses then? I have one for my really long extension (power) cord.
This is overkill unless you are dealing with a REALLY long audio snake.
I've seen people use the hand/elbow technique but insist on using a figure 8 pattern instead of just going round and round in a circle. I think the claim is that the figure 8 eliminates twists.
Not good. You are still stressing the cord at your elbow and hand using this technique. This can really fatigue the wire and result in shorts at the angle of each bend.
Either way, sometimes one end is used to form tight coils perpendicular to the loops along the shorter dimension, and then the loose end is stuffed under one of these coils. Like you may find rope packaged at the store.
I've also watched people form large loops by holding a piece of cord at arm's length and then bringing it together. The large, flattened loops are then treated as one strand and tied into a single knot.
It seems to me that the techniques that leave you with nice, easy to manage bundles also put extra stress on the cables. Do they not?
"Tight and easily bundled" will result in a lot of extra stress. Better off to have nice uniform circular coils and then use cable ties to keep them held together neatly.
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#1942457 - 05/15/08 07:57 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: RicBassGuy]
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Max Valentino
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HA! Well, in my home studio I have a bunch of "audiophile" cables (AudioQuest, Tara, Alessandro...yes, it is ridiculously expensive, but cable quality does show up when running thru a high end mic pre...)). For a while I did use Monster Cable for my live rigs. Never really bought into the "instrument specific" merchandising, tho'...it was more for the lifetime warranty (which was used a few times). But, I found--in a not so nice way--that Monster used slightly oversized barrels on the connectors which made it impossible to use anything but a MC once the jack connectors had been stretched. I have heard they no longer do this (anyone else have this exp. with MC?), but, nonetheless, it seemed like a kinda devious business practice. While I am a believer in high end cables...cable capacitance is a real issue, yet the overall effects of such are dependent on your gear (passive basses, and esp. piezos, exhibit this much more than active basses) and your onstage environment. Running a mediocre bass thru a high-end "audiophile" cable to an "average" amp system is likely to be a waste of money; whatever benefits the cable may give are lost (that whole "a chain being only as strong as its' weakest link" maxim...). In a recording situation, cable quality and capcitance is a very big issue. That being said...and in defense of "cheap cables", one way to obtain a "vintage" old school tone is to use a cheap cable. It does help roll of some of the "unwanted " high end....also, in a live environment where your single coils are having serious "issues" with ground hum or or other electrical garbage (poor mains, reostats, et al) using a cheapy cable can effectively work as a hum elimanator.......FWIW, my live rig is cabled with with "homemade" cables (Canare cable with Neutrik or Switchcraft ends); instrument cables, patch cables, and speaker cables. I even make my own balanced cables. They work great, have low capacitance, strong solder connections and strain relief........But yes, to repeat others, learn to wrap cables carefully. Max
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#1942466 - 05/15/08 08:10 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Max Valentino]
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Max Valentino
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but....I will say that my favorite instrument cable is a Nordost Quattro Fil. I use this cable for recording and sessions, but never gig it. Insanely expensive (was a custom made cable and given to me as gift......), and seems, even to me, a bit silly to play a gig with a $2000 inst. cable........Max
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#1942482 - 05/15/08 08:36 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Max Valentino]
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Edro
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But, I found--in a not so nice way--that Monster used slightly oversized barrels on the connectors which made it impossible to use anything but a MC once the jack connectors had been stretched. I have heard they no longer do this (anyone else have this exp. with MC?) I've only recently used a Monster cable, for the past six months at most. Haven't noticed any problem yet when switching from it to another brand, which I do often when using the TASCAM BT. A 12' cable would be an accident waiting to happen while jamming with the headphones on. As far as the jack connectors being stretched is concerned, I have a Carvin kit bass that I had to bend them back in shape a little while getting used to the change of the jack being on the body's side instead of on the front. Maybe that was just luck, but it worked for me.
... a $2000 inst. cable... Someone get the paddles, I'm about to have a heart attack.
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#1942515 - 05/15/08 10:08 AM
Re: Instrument cables
[Re: Edro]
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Paul K
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I've a jack with a switch on the end that I keep in the home studio. Works like a dream; I can quickly unplug to answer the phone, etc., without that noisey snap-crackle-pop.
Coiling: I do coil them around my elbow, but do so very loosely just for measurement while giving the cable a half twist. Key here is loosely; there's no extra strain on the cable.
I read in Recording magazine (or some other related mag) that the figure 8 style of coiling is superior, 'cause that way it's easier to un-coil. Just put it on the floor and connect up the goes-intas and goes-outas. Long runs of conventionally coiled cables need to be unrolled while undoing that half twist, or you get the spaggetti that I deal with after the others have done set-up. Downside of the figure 8 is getting others properly trained to use it, and also that the cables don't sit in the cable bag as well. I do my way-too-long garage power cable by sitting down Indian Style (Current PC term for this is "Criss Cross Applesauce") and do the figure 8 around my knees, then hang it up in the garage. Can't/won't do this on a bar room floor.
When done coiling XLR cables I do the happy dance if the ends come out close enough to connect together. Neater cable bag.
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