#1941375 - 05/12/08 11:12 PM
2x12 Cabinets
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Winter_Madness
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Registered: 03/19/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Slovakia
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Hi everybody,
I would like to ask you which of these 2x12 guitar cabinets do you recommend to use on recordings to get better hard rock/heavy metal sound? Marshall 212 1936 or Framus FR212 CB ?
Notes:
1. The amp is Marshall JCM800 + Ibanez Tube Screamer, guitars are Les Paul and Ibanez RG
2. Microphone: Shure SM57, preamp ART Tube (with compressor)
Many thanx for your responses.
All the best.
_________________________
Current gear: Cubase 4, M-Audio ProjectMix I/O, Behringer Truth 2030A, Yamaha P-80, Yamaha DJX, Jackson JS1, NI FM7, NI Guitar Rig, Amplitube 2, EZ Drummer+EZX DFH, OKTAVA Mk-319 microphone,
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#1941393 - 05/13/08 02:07 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Winter_Madness]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I'm VERY fond of the sound of the THD 2x12 cabinet. Kinda crosses boundaries between the closed back and open backed sound. You might also explore Avatar.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1941424 - 05/13/08 04:47 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Picker
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With a 2x12 cab, it's mostly about the speakers. The cab itself isn't gonna make much difference, really, although an open-back cab is gonna be more airy in the highs and high mids, and a closed-back cab will have more low-end grunt. Also, an open back cab will be less directional, depending upon what is behind it. That can be a plus or minus, depending on how focused and controlled you want the cab's dispersal to be.
I am not familiar with the Framus cab, but I've heard the Marshall 212, and it's a pretty good-sounding closed back cab, if you have the right speakers in it. The Greenback reissues are nice. I imagine the Framus cab,if it's back is closed, would probably sound about the same with the same speakers.
One thing you might want to check out is what the cab is made out of. Cheaper cabs are made out of MDF(particle board made of glue and sawdust), which makes a pretty decent cabinet, but is more fragile than 3/4" plywood, which the Marshall is made out of. The plywood is gonna tale much more of a beating than any MDF cab ever thought of taking.
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You're only young once, but you can be immature forever...
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#1941426 - 05/13/08 05:01 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Picker]
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Winter_Madness
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Bill: thank you, but it is pretty hard to buy THD in Slovakia 
Picker: Well, the cab will be used in studio only, so I should decide to pay more money for it and I will buy Marshall. I already tried the Mesa/Boogie cab 4x12 but it is much more than I need for my home studio.
_________________________
Current gear: Cubase 4, M-Audio ProjectMix I/O, Behringer Truth 2030A, Yamaha P-80, Yamaha DJX, Jackson JS1, NI FM7, NI Guitar Rig, Amplitube 2, EZ Drummer+EZX DFH, OKTAVA Mk-319 microphone,
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#1941429 - 05/13/08 05:07 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Winter_Madness]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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In terms of cabinets and their affect on the sound... with a fully open backed cab, yeah, the differences are small.
Cabinet material and stiffness of the motorborad are important.
With a closed back design, the materials becomeeven more important, and the results of the cabinet on the sound can be dramatic.
What I like about both the Avatar and THD designs is that it is a combo of the closed and open backed ideas, with just enough 'closed' to honk a bit like a Marshall, and just enough open to breathe like a Fender combo.
I don't know about THD, but I have bought microphones from Germany, England, and Australia. I've sold guitars to Canada, England, and Australia. I've bought studio monitors (used) from England. Why can't you buy THD?
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1941431 - 05/13/08 05:12 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Winter_Madness
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THDs are not sold in Slovakia or Czech Republic, I think. Maybe I should check out some Austrian or German shops then. My only problem is that I would need to try the cab before buying it and that is difficult in this area. I tried the above mentioned Marshall and Framus and they both sounded great for me.
_________________________
Current gear: Cubase 4, M-Audio ProjectMix I/O, Behringer Truth 2030A, Yamaha P-80, Yamaha DJX, Jackson JS1, NI FM7, NI Guitar Rig, Amplitube 2, EZ Drummer+EZX DFH, OKTAVA Mk-319 microphone,
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#1941435 - 05/13/08 05:17 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Winter_Madness]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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A cabinet that I liked in the old days (so much that I had ten of them) was the old Fender 2x12. I tried loading them with JBLs, which was too clean. The stock Fender speaker, the old Utahs, and even some cheaper speakers all souded good int he cab. Like Picker says, at that point you start to audition individual speakers to put In the cabinet.
It used to be that speaker cabinets were designed around the free-air resonance of the speaker intended for the cabinet, and the performance characteristics that the designer was trying to achive verses the compromises he had to make. But it seems that many of the favored guitar cabinets were just put together because someone thought thst thre size was cool. The original Marshall 8x12 is a prime example, and cutting down to a square basically breaks most of the design rules for speaker cabinet design. But we liked the result, so science be damned!
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1941449 - 05/13/08 05:32 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Picker]
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miroslav
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With a 2x12 cab, it's mostly about the speakers. The cab itself isn't gonna make much difference, really, although an open-back cab is gonna be more airy in the highs and high mids, and a closed-back cab will have more low-end grunt.
Mmmmm....the cab will make a good deal of difference....depending on its size and the type of baffle used (floating or not).
If they are all pretty much the same size/style of 212...then yeah, it will be the speakers that make the difference.
For what it’s worth…I only use a 112 for 90% of my recording needs…though I have a few different ones with different type speakers.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1941451 - 05/13/08 05:33 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Winter_Madness
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"But we liked the result, so science be damned!"
I'm gonna make further exploring in this area.
_________________________
Current gear: Cubase 4, M-Audio ProjectMix I/O, Behringer Truth 2030A, Yamaha P-80, Yamaha DJX, Jackson JS1, NI FM7, NI Guitar Rig, Amplitube 2, EZ Drummer+EZX DFH, OKTAVA Mk-319 microphone,
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#1941888 - 05/13/08 11:05 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Winter_Madness]
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Part-timer
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Find some speaker building books. Check out the volume for 2x12. Ports od oen back to get the response you want and build one.
It is easy and a great feeling. Cheaoer too,
Does anyone build their cabinets anymore?
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#1941988 - 05/14/08 06:03 AM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Part-timer]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Find some speaker building books. Check out the volume for 2x12. Ports od oen back to get the response you want and build one.
It is easy and a great feeling. Cheaoer too,
Does anyone build their cabinets anymore?
Probably not cheaper, unless you already own a bunch of stuff. (or unless you don't care if the end result looks like a clubhouse built by the Little Rascals...)
By the way, move those ports to the front and let that sound come out to the audience, rather than into the back wall of the stage.
Actually calculating the tuned air resonance and making the right sized port for the speaker is one of the thinsg that has been ignored by guitar speaker cabinet builders for decades. Likewise, most of the information in the books on speaker cabinet building. Why? Mostly ecause of ignorance, but also because the approach to amping a guitar has lewss to do with science than personal taste and art.
early on, I left one of my cabinets out in the weather for two weeks... rain, sun, the works... in order to 'season' the paper cones of the drivers. And it was popular for a while in the late 1960s to slit the cones with a razor.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1942215 - 05/14/08 04:02 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Part-timer]
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Gifthorse
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What about Orange cabinets? Are they available in Slovakia?
I think Orange rocks!!
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#1942237 - 05/14/08 04:53 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Gifthorse]
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soggybomb
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i think you will be looking for a closed back cab for the sound you say you are looking for. i have played this Mesa Boogie Stiletto closed back 2X12 <LINK>. It is loaded with two V30s, and is built like a tank. Try to find a Mesa dealer in your area and bring a guitar along.
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#1942355 - 05/14/08 11:40 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Gifthorse]
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Winter_Madness
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Yes we can buy some Orange stuff, actually I never tried it, thanks for advice. 
_________________________
Current gear: Cubase 4, M-Audio ProjectMix I/O, Behringer Truth 2030A, Yamaha P-80, Yamaha DJX, Jackson JS1, NI FM7, NI Guitar Rig, Amplitube 2, EZ Drummer+EZX DFH, OKTAVA Mk-319 microphone,
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#1942710 - 05/15/08 04:25 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
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Picker
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Is that a closed-back or open-back cab?
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You're only young once, but you can be immature forever...
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#1942712 - 05/15/08 04:27 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Picker]
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Dr. Ellwood
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Is that a closed-back or open-back cab?
Closed.
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#1942718 - 05/15/08 04:52 PM
Re: 2x12 Cabinets
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
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soggybomb
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+1. The alnico blues speakers are excellent.
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