#1940571 - 05/11/08 08:06 AM
Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
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Darcy H
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I was really pining for a small hand-wired amp, and managed to pickup a 1970 Princeton (non-reverb) pretty cheap, but it was in real rough shape, and not really worth anything of vintage value. The sound was terrible with lots of weird noises, so not knowing where to start, I just changed pretty much everything electrical (with higher end stuff), all the caps and resistors, one of the transformers (lots of rust leaking out of it) and put a Weber Vintage Alnico in it. It's my first amp project, but I was pleasantly surprised when I turned it on the first time and it actually worked. But I enjoyed the process, I figured there wasn't much more involved into making it into a Blackface Princeton Reverb...slight changes to the circuit board, 2 more tubes, new faceplate (the old silverface one was shot and ugly, and I couldn't find a replacement anyway, BFPR's on the other hand are easy to find). So I'll have abit more gain when I'm done too (the Reverb circuit has much more gain). The wirings a dog breakfast at present, still replacing old wires....
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#1940573 - 05/11/08 08:09 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Darcy H
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...and I just found out that Fender is releasing a Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue, much like their Deluxe Reverb Reissue (not hand-wired).
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#1940578 - 05/11/08 08:13 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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mdrs
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Cool project Darcy. Can you post any audio??
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#1940590 - 05/11/08 08:29 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: mdrs]
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Darcy H
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I didn't record any when I had the original Princeton (non-reverb) circuit complete (played it for about a week before I decided on the Blackface Reverb conversion), and it's in pieces right now. But I'll post some when it's done!
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#1940611 - 05/11/08 09:07 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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splitting hare
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That looks like a nice score and a fun project Darcy!  Looking forward to seeing and hearing the finished product!
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#1940628 - 05/11/08 09:50 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: splitting hare]
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guitarzan
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cool project Darcy. can't wait to hear it.
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#1940725 - 05/11/08 02:49 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: guitarzan]
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Darcy H
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Me too! The Princeton (non-reverb) with the sprague caps and all new inards, was the most heavenly clean I have ever heard, and at around 10 watts, is perfect for the house, but even with the amp and my Tele dimed, there was no breakup. I was looking into all these gain mods and didn't realize that the Reverb edition has far more gain (different circuitry), should start breaking up around 5, so I thought I'd go for the gold!
Thinking Jim Campilongo....(favours Teles and Princeton Reverbs)
Guitarzan, wasn't it you talking about Ani Difranco? Just picked up her "Greatest Hits". Awesome!
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#1940727 - 05/11/08 02:57 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Picker
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...and I just found out that Fender is releasing a Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue, much like their Deluxe Reverb Reissue (not hand-wired).
How much?
_________________________
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever...
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#1940728 - 05/11/08 02:59 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Picker
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...and I just found out that Fender is releasing a Blackface Princeton Reverb Reissue, much like their Deluxe Reverb Reissue (not hand-wired).
How much?
_________________________
You're only young once, but you can be immature forever...
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#1940732 - 05/11/08 03:11 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Picker]
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Darcy H
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Not sure, someone mentioned it on the Fender Forum, $799 I believe, someone saw/played one at the New York Guitar Show.
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#1943419 - 05/17/08 10:07 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Darcy H
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Woo hoo!!! No sparks, no smoke, no explosions! Fired it up for the first time this morning. No hum (to my suprise), gorgeous clean tone with it starting to break up around 5, about twice as loud as the non-reverb Princeton circuit, and the reverb is cavernous!!! I'll try to record some clips in the next few days.
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#1943421 - 05/17/08 10:15 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Dr. Ellwood
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+100 great job!! Darcy 
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#1943422 - 05/17/08 10:16 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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mdrs
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Good Job!! Great idea to convert to Reverb....
And, the breakup at about 5 sounds just about right!!
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#1943477 - 05/17/08 01:12 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Caevan O'Shite
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Congratulations, Darcy, that's awesome all-around! What a cool amp, and great work, too. I look forward to hearing some clips.
Another cool thing here is that you've got a single-channel bf Reverb amp; most, maybe all, bf Reverb amps had a "Normal"-channel, and a Reverb/Vibrato/Tremolo-channel. In such amps, removing V1- the first preamp-tube on your left as you look in from the back of the amp, and the first gain-stage for the generally unused 1st-channel- will result in a slight increase of overall gain and headroom, as it will free-up some generally wasted power being taken from the filament-heater supply.
But in your too-cool and custom Princeton reverb amp, you've got no such tail-riding parasite as the "Normal"-channel, right from the git-go. It's one big AB-normal channel!  And I doo mean that in the very best of ways! 
(Wait- Uhmn, I guess that Princetons and Princeton-Reverbs still had just one channel, though with two inputs... oops, my mistake! I've had very little stick-time with Princetons of any stripe... )
 Want even more gain and midrange? For a bolder "blackface" yet, solder a higher value resistor from the leftmost tab of the Bass-pot (looking at it from it's rear) to ground (to the pot's body). Most bf Fenders with Treble and Bass (but no Middle) controls have a 6.8 k resistor there, or none at all. Increase the value to 8 k or 10 k or so, and you're increasing mids, upper -mids, bite, gain; crank 'er up a good bit louder than you intend to play, with your guitar's volume-knob brought way down for clean tones. Bring it up bit by bit for more and more fatness, bite, and overdrive; dime that knob onna git-tar fer leads 'n' AC/DC riddums, man!  
-AND- you could also install a pot in the negative-feedback loop, similar to a Presence-control, but to be a gradual, continuous control for removing the negative-feedback loop and imparting more gain and a fuller, more robust, warm 'n' vintagey wildness...
Along with some good 6V6s, put a Matched Phase Inverter from Groove Tubes in there to drive the output-tubes; I cannot stress enough how much of a difference this can (and usually does) make. When a nine-pin miniature dual-triode (all 12AX7, 12AT7, etc. types) tube's two internal triode circuits are not quite the same (the case with the majority), it can impart phase-cancellation and like weirdness to the output of the amp, resulting in perceived dead-spots on certain notes on the fretboard and a strangled, lifeless tone in some or all positions. Try a nice "Mullard remake" type that's been tested for being and designated as an MPI by GT (if they have any), I love what one's done for my tone before; Feel free to ask Myles for some other suggestions for an MPI, as well...
I've got my work cut out for me in an old '67 bf Fender 2x12 Pro Reverb that I put on "back-burner'-status a long time ago; with the exception of a resistor someone had placed on the Bass-pot of the "Vibrato"-channel as described above, and new filter-capacitors in the power-supply's cap-pan under the chassis (and, almost of course, all of the tubes), electronically, it was entirely stock. The speakers are NOT, and not much good, either; and the baffle is neither original nor right. I had it taken all apart, and after an unforuneate house-fire, many of its small parts like all the screws, amp-glides for the top, etc., were accidentally tossed out by someone...   
I've long been debating whether to restore it as authentically as possible, or to maybe swap out the output-transformer for either a bigger one for bolder, more robust, tight-bass "Baby Twin"-tones with a pair of JBLs or EVs, or for an O/T that will allow me to mod and switch it over to a duet of 6V6s (instead of its 6L6s) and a couple of Celestions... Hmmmnn, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe the latter! Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe!
"...Ani Difranco? Just picked up her "Greatest Hits". Awesome!"
I got to do sound for her yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaars ago at a completely over-packed waaaaaaaaaaay beyond capacity "coffee-house"-gig; she was great, both as a solo-performer and as a person to work with; and I tell ya, she's a real Force of Nature, I think I could've gotten by without any PA at all for her, and she has an aura about her- exponentially and explosively charming, charismatic, energetic, and attractive in every way. Great and unique guitar playing!
_________________________
~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1943504 - 05/17/08 02:42 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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Darcy H
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Got the midrange boost on the bass pot already installed (10K pot with the 6.8 K resistor), but only had a chance to try it stock (off)and full on, which had far too much bass and things got overly "loose" in the bass department. I'll play with it more when time permits. Got the matched phase inverter as well, I had Torres set me up with the hottest matched tube set he could come up with, the whole lot. I wanted to get some time with it in it's present state before messing with the negative-feedback loop, but I'm aware of the mod and will probally go for it eventually. I originally wanted a 5E3 circuit (and could have done that with the old Princeton far easier than adding the reverb!) and will probally be looking for more gain once I get used to it.
I worried about authenticity as well when I started, but I'll never try and sell it as something it isn't, I just want an house amp to play with!
A pretty neat aside...my wife has always hated when I pick up a guitar! She's not shy about the negative comments either. I try and play the Blues Deluxe quite quietly when she's home, clean or dirty depending on what I'm playing (the amps drive I'm talking here, in case there's any doubt) but she was raving about this Princeton Reverb! She loves it! Sounds like a guitar is supposed to sound she claims. If I get a compliment out of her (a very rare thing, and I got a few today) then all the burnt fingers soldering this baby up were well worth it!
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#1943530 - 05/17/08 04:45 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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mdrs
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Gear that brings a couple closer together???
NOW THAT'S A GREAT CONCEPT!! CONGRATS THERE, DARCY!!
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#1943533 - 05/17/08 04:59 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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Caevan O'Shite
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"...she was raving about this Princeton Reverb! She loves it! Sounds like a guitar is supposed to sound she claims. If I get a compliment out of her (a very rare thing, and I got a few today) then all the burnt fingers soldering this baby up were well worth it!"
That's great! Ya just gotta love that kinda stuff...
_________________________
~Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite~
_ _ ___ _ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _
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#1949826 - 05/29/08 10:15 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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Darcy H
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Well, cringe-worthy to be sure, but I finally got around to recording my Princeton Reverb build, really cranked up the vibrato/tremolo.
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6586731
Had my first jam with it yesterday, and it really held it's own. It proved louder than a buddy's 20W Traynor, with a nice growl about 5, and quiet too, quieter than a solid state dimed! Figured I'd have some hum but not a whisper.
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#1949870 - 05/29/08 11:21 AM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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soggybomb
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great tone
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#1949979 - 05/29/08 01:12 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Darcy H]
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rickygclef
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The tremolo on that sounds excellent. Immaculate looks on that too!
One of my favorite amps of all time.
It sounds awesome clean at low volumes and like you said after 5 that's where that puppy starts to growl 
You did a great job
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#1949988 - 05/29/08 01:21 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: rickygclef]
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Dr. Ellwood
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Yes SIR!! sounds mighty sweet!!
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#1950108 - 05/29/08 05:14 PM
Re: Blackface Princeton Reverb Rebuild Progress
[Re: Caevan O'Shite]
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splitting hare
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Excellent job, Darcy! Yeah, I love the tone of your Tele thru that amp!
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