#1938497 - 05/07/08 07:50 AM
Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
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Nicklab
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It seems that gradually the bass world is embracing the concept of the Class D amplifier. Small, lightweight amps that might be so compact that they can fit in the front pocket of a gig bag, but powerful enough to run 1 or 2 cabinets easily. But are you buying them? Here are a few that are being offered by amp manufacturers.
Ashdown Little Giant 350
Eden WTX-260
Genze Benz Shuttle 6.0
Mark Bass Little Mark II
Mesa Boogie Walkabout
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#1938499 - 05/07/08 07:55 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Nicklab]
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yourlord
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peavey made a 1U rackmount class-D power amp called the DPC-1400 that was primarily used in bass circles. I still lust after one to this day. it put out 1400Wrms mono bridged.
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#1938501 - 05/07/08 07:57 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: yourlord]
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forceman
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I take it Stewart World is no longer a viable option?
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#1938506 - 05/07/08 08:02 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: forceman]
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DavidMPires
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Sorry but the Little Mark is classed as a C class amp, Mark Bass F1 is the class D amp, which I have and I swear by it. Very few adjustments are needed, very lightweight. The new version comes with a mute switch as well.
That amp puts 500W out there, but there's an issue not all cabs can handle the full frequency of that amp, it goes very low and very high. So you may need to try out before you buy a cab to go with it.
Edited by DavidMPires (05/07/08 09:18 AM)
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#1938510 - 05/07/08 08:06 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: DavidMPires]
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Nicklab
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I stand corrected on my amp classifications.
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#1938512 - 05/07/08 08:08 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Nicklab]
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DavidMPires
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Nicklab where did you get that info from? I was pretty sure that I read somewhere about it. I will email Mark Bass.
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#1938554 - 05/07/08 09:16 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: DavidMPires]
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SteveC
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I have been using a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 10T Combo for all my gigs the last couple months and it is fantastic. (I tried the Shuttle 6.0 210 but I thought it would be more than I needed.)For those "background" jazz gigs it is great as a stand alone. You'd think there wouldn't be enough low end, but I almost always end up turning the bass down. It also works great as a stage monitor for PA supported gigs. I used it on a BIG stage recently and ended up depending on it more than my personal monitor mix.
It's a great little combo that so far hasn't let me down in any situation. It's the small, light, loud, great sounding combo I have been looking for all these years. I can't say anythin gbad about it. The built in DI sounds better than my Radial JDI. I never thought I'd say that.
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#1938566 - 05/07/08 09:44 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: SteveC]
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Paul K
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I've got one of the original superfly amps. Works very well for me. THere is a tiny hum no matter what the pre or post volume is set at, but not audible on stage even between songs. Direct out does not have this hum. The unit takes a good four ot five seconds to power up; no lights at all, then the lights do weird things which can give you a heart attack the first couple times you power it up. The EQ section is impossible to use on the fly (Ha! Get it???); the computer takes a couple seconds to adjust after you push the buttons.
It's loud, it's clean, but it runs hot no matter how hard you push it. It was cheap (blow-out price at M.F.) and I'd buy another if I had to do it all over again. I like the new ones since the EQ is analog knobs, as it should be.
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#1938580 - 05/07/08 10:12 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Paul K]
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jcadmus
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The Eden WTX-260 has been getting pretty good marks from the guys over on the Eden forum, but I haven't personally tried one.
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#1938663 - 05/07/08 12:17 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: SteveC]
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saxofunk
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I have been using a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 10T Combo for all my gigs the last couple months and it is fantastic.
I laid eyes on one of these for the first time yesterday. Oh my, they look so tiny. Didn't play it yet... maybe later.
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#1938677 - 05/07/08 12:47 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: saxofunk]
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Mike Chini
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Bought the shuttle 6.0. It's awesome and loud. I almost can't believe it. There is no sacrifice in sound quality whatsoever. In fact, it's one of the best sounding heads I've tried to date. It has some really nice touches such as an XLR out for recording and Aux in for playing along with an external audio source (ie iPhone/iPod etc.).
I bought it because my other amp (Ampeg V4BH) is huge, heavy and a PITA when playing out. I also wanted something that wasn't going to have to be retubed every year or two. I plan on getting a 2x12 cabinet to further reduce my rig when playing out.
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#1938681 - 05/07/08 01:01 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: saxofunk]
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SteveC
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They look tiny - and are - but the sound is great.
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#1938721 - 05/07/08 02:06 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: SteveC]
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getz76
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Nick, don't forget:
Gallien Krueger MB2-500
Euphonic Audio iAmp Micro 300
If I was gigging again, I might look into the Gallien Krueger. It is like half a ream of paper and would fit in my gig-bag.
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#1938725 - 05/07/08 02:11 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: getz76]
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getz76
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Oh, and I have a Peavey DPC-1400X. Great amp. I also have a Stewart World 2.1. Also a great amplifier. I had it shut down once, but that was due to a bum cable.
Stewart still sells the World 2.1. They also make a pretty nice direct box, the ADB-1.
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#1938729 - 05/07/08 02:19 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: getz76]
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Nicklab
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Nice! It's always good to have some options. I didn't think that the list of amps I had posted was the end-all, be-all.
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#1938785 - 05/07/08 04:04 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: getz76]
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Bumpcity
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I also have a Stewart World 2.1. Also a great amplifier.
I've got a Stewart World 1.6 and can't say enough good things about it. Fantastic amp, super reliable, tons of power, and it weighs next to nothing.
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#1938796 - 05/07/08 04:20 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Bumpcity]
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Luke73
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Personally, I'm sure these tiny amps are great, but I couldn't give a hoot about their size and weight. It's just not an important consideration for me.
Sure, they're light which is a good thing I guess - but weight doesn't really bother me.
Three major factors for me when buying an amp are:
a: Tone
c: Quality
b: Value
If all three are good, I'll buy it. If it happens to be a tiny head, that's fine - if it's a big heavy lug, that's fine too.
As long as it sounds good, is built well, and represents good value I'm happy.
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#1938800 - 05/07/08 04:29 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: SteveC]
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b5pilot
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I tried the Genz Benz shuttle combo. Very nice. I saw the Eden and I was very impressed with the size but I didn't get to try it.
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#1938818 - 05/07/08 05:15 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: saxofunk]
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57pbass
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I have the Walkabout...its not that small.... a micro head to me is one that would fit in gig bag pouch... WT 260, the Markbass F1..I have heard both and they sound great..if I had to choose between the Eden and the Markbass I would go with the Markbass..its 500 watts @ 4ohms...
I am waiting for the amps that are hi powered and as small as an IPOD.....
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#1938863 - 05/07/08 06:44 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: 57pbass]
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Basshappi
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I will be purchasing the GB Shuttle 6.0 very soon.
Some cab changes are in my future as well.
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#1938955 - 05/07/08 10:10 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Basshappi]
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Bumpcity
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I will be purchasing the GB Shuttle 6.0 very soon.
I checked out a Shuttle 6.0-12T recently and was none-more-impressed.
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#1938956 - 05/07/08 10:13 PM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: 57pbass]
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Bumpcity
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I have a Walkabout Scout (1x12 version) that I totally love. Fantastic little amp for doing gigs that does not require rock band type volume.
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#1938981 - 05/08/08 12:26 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Bumpcity]
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Davo-London
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OK, I'll bite.
what is the difference between class A, B, C and D amps? Is there an E? OK, I can google just as well as anyone else ... so Wiki says:
Power amplifier classes
[edit] Angle of flow or conduction angle
Power amplifier circuits (output stages) are classified as A, B, AB and C for analog designs, and class D and E for switching designs based upon the conduction angle or 'angle of flow' Θ of the input signal through the amplifying device, that is, the portion of the input signal cycle during which the amplifying device conducts. The image of the conduction angle is derived from amplifying a sinodial signal. (If the device is always on, Θ = 360°.) The angle of flow is closely related to the amplifier power efficiency. The various classes are introduced below, followed by more detailed discussion under individual headings later on.
Class A
100% of the input signal is used (conduction angle Θ = 360° or 2π, i.e. the active element works in its linear range all of the time). Where efficiency is not a consideration, most small signal linear amplifiers are designed as Class A, which means that the output devices are always in the conduction region. Class A amplifiers are typically more linear and less complex than other types, but are very inefficient. This type of amplifier is most commonly used in small-signal stages or for low-power applications (such as driving headphones).
Class B
50% of the input signal is used (Θ = 180° or π, i.e. the active element works in its linear range half of the time and is more or less turned off for the other half). In most Class B, there are two output devices (or sets of output devices), each of which conducts alternately for exactly 180 deg (or half cycle) of the input signal; selective RF amplifiers can also be implemented using a single active element.
These amplifiers are subject to crossover distortion if the handoff from one active element to the other is not perfect, as when two complimentary transistors (i.e. one PNP, one NPN) are connected as two emitter followers with their base and emitter terminals in common, requiring the base voltage to slew across the region where both devices are turned off.[3]
Class AB
Here the two active elements conduct more than half of the time as a means to reduce the cross-over distortions of Class B amplifiers. In the example of the complementary emitter followers a bias network allows for more or less quiescent current thus providing an operating point somewhere between Class A and Class B. Sometimes a figure is added, e.g. AB1 or AB2, with higher figures implying a higher quiescent current and therefore more of the properties of Class A.
Class C
Class C amplifiers conduct less than 50% of the input signal and the distortion at the output is high, but high efficiencies (up to 90%) are possible. Some applications (for example, megaphones) can tolerate the distortion. A much more common application for Class C amplifiers is in RF transmitters, where the distortion can be vastly reduced by using tuned loads on the amplifier stage. The input signal is used to roughly switch the amplifying device on and off, which causes pulses of current to flow through a tuned circuit.
Class D
Main article: Switching amplifier
These use switching to achieve a very high power efficiency (more than 90% in modern designs). By allowing each output device to be either fully on or off, losses are minimized. The analog output is created by pulse-width modulation, i.e. the active element is switched on for shorter or longer intervals instead of modifying its resistor. There are more complicated switching schemes like sigma-delta modulation, to improve some performance aspects like lower distortions or better efficiency. The amplifier, therefore, features the high power efficiency (low energy losses), which additionally results in lower weight by eliminating the bulky heat sinks.
Other classes
There are several other amplifier classes, although they are mainly variations of the previous classes. For example, Class H and Class G amplifiers are marked by variation of the supply rails (in discrete steps or in a continuous fashion, respectively) following the input signal. Wasted heat on the output devices can be reduced as excess voltage is kept to a minimum. The amplifier that is fed with these rails itself can be of any class. These kinds of amplifiers are more complex, and are mainly used for specialized applications, such as very high-power units. Also, Class E and Class F amplifiers are commonly described in literature for radio frequencies applications where efficiency of the traditional classes deviate substantially from their ideal values. These classes use harmonic tuning of their output networks to achieve higher efficiency and can be considered a subset of Class C due to their conduction angle characteristics.
There now seems a competition to see who can bring out the smallest Class D amp. As Luke says is it that important? Well I guess if you are walking to gig as Phil W does then yes, sure it does. But in making these amps so small and light what are they sacrificing? Anything?
I have to admit the text above is all about amplifier design and doesn't really help my understanding?
Davo
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#1938985 - 05/08/08 12:48 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Davo-London]
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DavidMPires
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Also most of the class D amps are digital.
While I was in Portugal, we had our own studio, where we would keep the gear there, I wasn't concerned with weight or size, that's why I had an ampeg. We also had two vans to move stuff around.
Now in London where I need to comutte to gigs, studios, etc... a light amp is the key, like i did when i took my mark bass f1 to the studio, I only rent cabs wherever i'm playing, although I now managed to leave my cab on the storage place at the studio.
So if you are a commuter and walk around with the bass, the weight and size will defenitly be an issue, and as Davo, Phil and Tim can confirm there was no sound compromise in such a small amp.
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#1938986 - 05/08/08 12:50 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: DavidMPires]
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DavidMPires
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I also noticed that these class D amps, have quicker responses than a normal amp.
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#1939002 - 05/08/08 02:44 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: DavidMPires]
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Newf
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I very much enjoyed playing the WTX-260. The 12" Walkabout was fun too, pricey though.
Newf
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#1939044 - 05/08/08 05:16 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Newf]
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Big Daddy from Motown
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I've been using the Eden WTX-260 for almost all of my gigs for the last year. It really is a fabulous amp. It has a lot of power. It's rated at 260 -300 watts with 3 DB of headroom. I*t has been loud enough for any of my gigs this year. The Eden EQ is voiced well enough to make all of my basses sound great. The DI sounds great and the headphone output makes it a useful travel companion.
Now the things I don't like about it. When it clips the sound is horrible. Harsh. The work around is simple don't clip it. It's easy,a led lights up on the front panel when it's clipping,just turn down. My other critism is that I con't like the compressor. I don't like the compressors on most other amps either so thats a moot point. The Eden 405 is one of the few amps that has a compressor that I do like.
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#1939077 - 05/08/08 06:30 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Basshappi]
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SteveC
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You will be happy. I have not started a thread or talked about my new combo much (as I get a lot of grief for switching gear though I know it's all said with love) but I really can't find anything bad about this amp.
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#1939126 - 05/08/08 07:38 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: SteveC]
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Davo-London
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I see the Shuttle has a valve pre-amp. Those who've got one, does this warm up the sound at all? Say compared to an MB F1?
Davo
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#1939169 - 05/08/08 08:52 AM
Re: Class D amps / Compact Bass heads
[Re: Davo-London]
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DavidMPires
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Email from Mark Bass
Hi David,
let me start by thanking you for contacting us and for your interest in Markbass.
The Little Mark II amp is class AB.
Best Regards,
Riccardo Damiani
Markbass Online Customer Service
Parsek Srl
Via Aterno, 44
66020 San Giovanni Teatino (Chieti)
Tel: +390854465705 Fax: +390854407399
riccardo@markbass.it
-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: david [mailto:david.pires@.co.uk]
Inviato: mercoledì 7 maggio 2008 17.10
A: riccardo@markbass.it
Oggetto: Markbass Contact Form
Inviato da: david - Musician
Tel:
Email: david.pires@.co.uk
Città:
Nazione: United Kingdom The
Messaggio:
Hi
Just a quick question, is your Little Mark a class C or D amp? I know the F1 (which I own is a class D but i\'m not sure about the other heads.
Thanks
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