#1938294 - 05/06/08 08:21 PM
When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
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SpaceNorman
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It's no secret that here on the Keyboard Corner forum - you'd have to look long and hard to find something that incurs the smug disdain that the transpose feature receives from most forumites. My question to the forum is simple - do you EVER use the transpose feature - and if so, under what circumstances?
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#1938301 - 05/06/08 08:32 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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tonysounds
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I do now....the new band tunes down 1/2 step to accommodate vocals, and since I learned the songs in their "correct" key, and really can't afford to the time to retrain myself to play them 1/2 step flat (nor feel like it), I'm hitting the transpose button at the beginning of the show.
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#1938307 - 05/06/08 08:43 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: tonysounds]
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JinVA
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I do when I get thrown an unexpected solo during a gig in the key of B. Our harmonica player loves B, so we play a few blues tunes in that...and if they throw me a solo during a jam, i just tune down so i don't sound terrible. I'll get around to learning to improv in B one of these days....
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#1938311 - 05/06/08 08:51 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: tonysounds]
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SpaceNorman
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I find I use it in two different situations. The most common use is when I'm playing along with a CD. We're not shy about rekeying tunes to fit the vocals - so if I'm playing along with the CD of the original - I use the "keyboard capo" to match the key we play it in.
I play with several different groups - and have a handful of tunes that are played in more than one band - and in a different key by each band. "Shared" tunes that are any more complex than a simple I-IV-V get transposed so that I don't find myself bonking the first chord of a bridge because I can't keep the song/key/band alignment straight.
Other than those two situations - I never touch the transpose button.
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#1938315 - 05/06/08 09:09 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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linwood
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I can only think of one time that I used it. I was called to sub a gig at Bally's once and was told that there were no charts for me, but that it was just playing behind a guy who was playing ac piano and that it was standards and pop tunes that I'd know. I was to comp behind him and fill things out with synths and take a few solos. When I get there, I find out that this knucklehead plays every tune in C#. I used the button. Who wants to transpose a nights worth of tunes and play them right the first time in front of a room full of people? It was hard enough playing someone else's rig and finding out where all the patches are before the set starts. You know how that is. The height's not right and the key bed is funky and his amp sucks. Shity keys blasting through a kb300 on 40 tunes in C#. A nightmare for me.
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#1938318 - 05/06/08 09:19 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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kanker.
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I find I use it in two different situations. The most common use is when I'm playing along with a CD. We're not shy about rekeying tunes to fit the vocals - so if I'm playing along with the CD of the original - I use the "keyboard capo" to match the key we play it in. This seems like a use of the transpose button that few could find a flaw in.
Other than that - transposing on the fly is a gas if you ask me, and forcing yourself to play in your weaker keys when the pressure's on is as good as an hour of practicing it. Your fingers learn a lot quicker...
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#1938324 - 05/06/08 10:02 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: kanker.]
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raddtunes
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It's acceptable, totally ok, and a good idea to use the transpose button anytime you need it to make music.
We've been transposing horn parts for years for exactly the same reason you'd use the transpose button. Horn players only have to play one note at a time.
Why is it ok to do all this for them, and then we're not supposed to use the transpose button?
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#1938329 - 05/06/08 10:22 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: kanker.]
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B3-er
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I find I use it in two different situations. The most common use is when I'm playing along with a CD. We're not shy about rekeying tunes to fit the vocals - so if I'm playing along with the CD of the original - I use the "keyboard capo" to match the key we play it in. This seems like a use of the transpose button that few could find a flaw in. Other than that - transposing on the fly is a gas if you ask me, and forcing yourself to play in your weaker keys when the pressure's on is as good as an hour of practicing it. Your fingers learn a lot quicker...
Yep.
I used a real B3 for a long time on the road. No transposing with that thing. I consider myself fairly proficient in all keys as well as transposing on the fly because I was forced to! 
It really helps train your ears and mind.
Edited by B3-er (05/06/08 10:23 PM)
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#1938330 - 05/06/08 10:34 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: B3-er]
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daviel
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Nothing like the pressure of having to play in any key. Transposing on the fly will work all your resources for sure.
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#1938332 - 05/06/08 11:02 PM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: daviel]
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Dave Pierce
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It's acceptable to use it anytime you want.
I don't use it for these reasons:
* It's kind of a fun challenge to transpose on the fly * I want to be capable using a Hammond or acoustic piano on a gig is one turns out to be available * I once forgot to turn it off when I was transposed a half-step up at a gig, and I am terrified of repeating that experience
If I ever get something thrown at me at a gig, that I don't feel I can tranpose on the fly, I will definitely use the key. I can't remember it happening anytime recently, though.
--Dave
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#1938346 - 05/07/08 01:48 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: tonysounds]
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bloodyMary
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I do now....the new band tunes down 1/2 step to accommodate vocals, and since I learned the songs in their "correct" key, and really can't afford to the time to retrain myself to play them 1/2 step flat (nor feel like it), I'm hitting the transpose button at the beginning of the show.
Exactly the same thing. Some time ago we decided to transpose all of our tunes 1/2 step down. Guitars and bass simply get tuned to Eb, why should I re-learn all the songs, solos, etc?
Also, whenever I feel like improvising a bit (and I do it a lot with the cover tunes) - I prefer the key of E over Eb.
Even when I write, I write in 'normal' keys - A,D,E, whatever, and then right before I show the piece to the band, transpose the entire sequence 1/2 step down.
I really admire all the folks who can transpose on the fly. My dad is a pro accordion player, and he can play any tune in any key, on the fly - something he learned from wedding gigs, where he just had to do it. In classical world (most of his work) you don't learn stuff in several keys
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#1938350 - 05/07/08 02:05 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: bloodyMary]
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Dave Horne
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Everyone without exception who has used the transpose button on jobs has at one time or another forgotten to go back to 'C' and caused a train wreck. The transpose button is not a feature, it's an accident waiting to happen.
There are only 12 major keys and each major key has only seven diatonic triads ... do the math.
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#1938356 - 05/07/08 02:49 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Dave Horne]
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Tusker
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Not exactly the same thing ....
... but on Birdland, Jaco starts playing with the octave transpose button while firing off note-flurries. Tastier than a sweet hot benet.
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#1938359 - 05/07/08 03:05 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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gangsu
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I'm assuming the majority of people who pride themselves on not using the transpose button are playing tunes they know. And I'll bet they start them off in the usual key -unless they're playing alone wandering around the keyboard a bit lost as to where to go next. I mean really, do you do the cheezy "up a semitone" bit on every chorus??
Big deal.
I'll not only use the transpose button, but I'll insist on a digital piano. Depends on the circumstance, like everything else. Some art song that sounds wrong in any key, that's open territory.
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#1938365 - 05/07/08 03:53 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: gangsu]
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Dave Horne
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I'm assuming the majority of people who pride themselves on not using the transpose button are playing tunes they know. And I'll bet they start them off in the usual key -unless they're playing alone wandering around the keyboard a bit lost as to where to go next. I mean really, do you do the cheezy "up a semitone" bit on every chorus??
Big deal.
I'll not only use the transpose button, but I'll insist on a digital piano. Depends on the circumstance, like everything else. Some art song that sounds wrong in any key, that's open territory.
I like your logic - if someone plays up a half step for each successive chorus, it's cheesy, and warrants a big deal.
Using the transpose button and declaring that fact loudly is the far better course of .... action.
Use it or lose it. (I'm, of course, referring to your brain and not the transpose button. )
I stand by my initial post.
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#1938373 - 05/07/08 04:23 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Dave Horne]
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Dave Horne
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Use it or lose it. (I'm, of course, referring to your brain and not the transpose button. )
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#1938374 - 05/07/08 04:25 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: gangsu]
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gangsu
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Maybe just to clarify...
Supposing you're the audition accompanist. You're handed musical theatre that's been written within the last [five?] years. The singer asks for a transposition. Are you the guy for the job? This is not a handy lead sheet with chord symbols.
Basic transposition under "normal circumstances" doesn't have to be a ceremonious event. There are 12 days of Christmas, afterall.
Edited by gangsu (05/07/08 04:29 AM)
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#1938375 - 05/07/08 04:28 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Dave Horne]
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gangsu
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Use it or lose it. (I'm, of course, referring to your brain and not the transpose button.  )
Sometimes the brain has nothing more to give. I've been there too!
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#1938376 - 05/07/08 04:34 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: gangsu]
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12fingers
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I have played in bands that use drop tuning and the transpose key works mostly for that since I learned the songs in their correct key. I however prefer standard tuning because it saves me the hassle of worrying if I remembered to transpose other instruments that I am controlling via midi. While guitar players will argue that tuning down makes a song sound heavier, I like the brighter sound of the song in A440. Did any of you guys ever notice that a lot of Boston tunes where in keys like Bflat, F and D sharp. It gave their music a brighter sound.
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#1938377 - 05/07/08 04:34 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: gangsu]
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RABid
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When you want to punish the singer and can talk the guitarists into tuning their instruments up a step.
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#1938396 - 05/07/08 05:36 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: linwood]
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Joe Muscara
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It was hard enough playing someone else's rig and finding out where all the patches are before the set starts.
I find this funny, because I'd have just as hard a time finding the transpose feature and getting it to work right on most unknown boards as anything!
I like challenging myself by writing tunes in keys I'm not familiar with. I'm writing music for lyrics my sister wrote, and she tells me her favorite key is E flat. I think to myself, "okay, I don't know that one, time to learn it..." (and by "know" it, I mean it's not a key I'm comfortable with or have under my hands like I do for most of the sharp keys or F or B flat).
That being said, I might consider it in a pinch. OTOH, I think I would find it very confusing. I've never really done it, and I would think translating from some unfamiliar key's chords to another key's would be as much work as figuring out the song in the correct key, so why not just do that?
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#1938402 - 05/07/08 05:45 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Joe Muscara]
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Aidan
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If you've got perfect or near-perfect pitch, using the transpose button will drive you crazy - the combination of hand positions and audio feedback will equal "does not compute"...
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#1938405 - 05/07/08 05:48 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: RABid]
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MONTUNOMAN
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Transposing on the fly is my goal but I have a ways to go. Using the transpose button (especailly on a drastic tranposition) messes up the chord voicings that you would normally play plus it really sucks when you forget to turn it off, which happened to me a couple of times.
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#1938410 - 05/07/08 05:53 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Aidan]
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sachimay
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Funny, i just had a discussion on this with a guitar player friend if mine, he said he knows a lot of keyboard players that do this all the time...I was really surprised, I would never think of doing this....I am more than comfortable in all twelve keys and their minors, so i never saw the need....I don't tend to work with many singers, yet have always had a great respect for people that can transpose on the fly....I have practiced it for years and am not very good at it....A friend of mine, a jazz bassist says he learned to transpose thinking of the chords as numbers based upon the key ( I, IV, VI, V/V, etc...)
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#1938411 - 05/07/08 05:54 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Joe Muscara]
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Mr. Nightime
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I'll admit to using the transpose on occasion. Like others, I'll play a gig once in a while where the rest of the band tunes down 1/2 step. Why should I then be forced to play blues in Db, Eb, Gb, & Ab all night?
On my regular gig, we have one song that was originally done in G, but for some reason was moved to F#. A different band the guitar player use a capo on the same song, and it was moved to G#. Why, I'll never know. I'll use the transpose for that.
Yes, I've had the train wreck of forgetting to turn the transpose off, but I don't have that problem after a tune down gig. Both my piano and organ will go back to standard when they are powered down, so theres nothing to remember when going back to a standard gig.
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#1938424 - 05/07/08 06:14 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Mr. Nightime]
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kanker.
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Why should I then be forced to play blues in Db, Eb, Gb, & Ab all night? Trust me, if you really work on it, and commit to playing in the keys that are actually being used, your playing in all the other keys will improve *without having played in them* simply because your hands are getting a better grasp of the keyboard.
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#1938430 - 05/07/08 06:30 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: kanker.]
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Mr. Nightime
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Why should I then be forced to play blues in Db, Eb, Gb, & Ab all night? Trust me, if you really work on it, and commit to playing in the keys that are actually being used, your playing in all the other keys will improve *without having played in them* simply because your hands are getting a better grasp of the keyboard.
Agreed
But most times when I'm doing this type of gig, it's a fill in, and many of the songs I don't know fully. So in addition to using my ear, I will key off the guitar player's chords visually. If he was tuned standard and playing in Ab, that would be OK, but tuned down 1/2 step, I would have to figure out first off what he was playing, then transpose on the fly. There's always the potential to stumble when having to do that. I have, on occasion, done that, but I'd rather be able to feel the music then have to concentrate on the technical.
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#1938450 - 05/07/08 06:55 AM
Re: When IS It Acceptable to Use The Transpose Button?
[Re: Mr. Nightime]
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tarkus
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I've used transpose. It is a trainwreck waiting to happen. Espescially in a midi application.
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