#1938168 - 05/06/08 04:36 PM
Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
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Beethree
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Searching the archives, I was unable to find anyone who has listened to both the venerable QSC/Accugroove set up and the EV SXA360's. I am halfway through procuring the former, but it is not too late to turn back!!! I probably won't, and am happy thus far, but you can't blame a guy for 2nd guessing his gear acquisitions...
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#1938177 - 05/06/08 04:51 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Jazz+
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I think Dave Ferris and Bobby may be the only folks who have heard both.
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#1938183 - 05/06/08 04:59 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Dave Ferris
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I have.....not side by side though.
They both sound great.
I do like my 360's for the vocals plus the fact you can put them on a pole or in a slant-monitor position.
I would wager a guess the AGs would sound a little better for piano and keyboards because of the 3 way design.
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#1938192 - 05/06/08 05:11 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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Jazz+
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How about you and Bobby doing a side by side test some day and ending the mystery?
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1938227 - 05/06/08 05:47 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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Dave Ferris
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Yeah, that would be cool...
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#1938236 - 05/06/08 06:04 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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Beethree
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Thanks for the input.
For my use - vocals are not a consideration - this is strictly for keyboards.
I have not heard the EV's, but from all accounts they sound great. I do think the powered speakers would be a little more convenient both due to the integrated power amps and the ability to lie them down in slant position.
The diffence in money is not that much of a factor, since they are both pretty expensive, and hopefully something I will use for years to come.
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#1938238 - 05/06/08 06:05 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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eric
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I'm intrigued by the EV speakers, but never been in the same room with a pair. How do the less-expensive sibling SXa models compare, out of curiosity?
Thanks,
Eric
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"Actually, this is what I came for. Look at all this gear. I love equipment. I love it to be stacked up high." | Stewart Copeland SoulerCoaster
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#1938251 - 05/06/08 06:36 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: eric]
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Jazz+
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The higher price of the SXa360 is because they use better sounding (and more expensive) components than the less-expensive SXa models. The SXa100 does not sound like the SXa360, it's not as clear, detailed or as smooth sounding. I was disappointed with it. Although I liked it better than the Mackie SRM-450.
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1938256 - 05/06/08 06:48 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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Beethree
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I'm also wondering which is louder. The specs on the Accugroove speakers list SPL at 100 and most powered speakers >120 db. Is this apples to oranges? I was surprised that one Accugroove with the QSC maxed wasn't exceedingly loud. I mean it was loud, but not REALLY loud....
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#1938265 - 05/06/08 07:14 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Dave Ferris
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not sure..but my EV's go has loud has I ever care to play...after that point....well, I don't want to be there.
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#1938299 - 05/06/08 08:31 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Dave Ferris]
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Bobadohshe
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I'm moving bright and early tomorrow morning actually! It only took 7 weeks to find a place...I'll be in Lomita which is very close to my old place in Palos Verdes.
I'm down to do the side by side comparison someday, just not in the extremely near future. I've never heard the EVs, at least not with just a keyboard rig. My rig does involve several trips to the car which is certainly a hassle, but at least each component is lightweight.
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#1938321 - 05/06/08 09:29 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Bobadohshe]
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Jazz+
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That would be great if you could compare! It's been the number one gear question in my mind for some time now. I think the best test would be which system is more flattering for a solo digital piano.
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1938381 - 05/07/08 04:49 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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Beethree
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OK....I just ordered a pair of sxa360's for $1499.00 (blemished).
I will A/B one of these vs. one Accugroove (which is all I have now) and report back!!!!!
I will have at least a week or so to decide what to keep. If I keep the EV's, I can return the QSC for a full refund and Ebay my one Accugroove (which is where I bought it). If I keep the Accugroove(s) I can return the EV's. If the "blemished" status is not so bad on the EV's they would be the front runner, 'cause now we're talking $600-$700 difference in price. I will test these with piano (P250 and Nord Stage) as well as the Nord organ, and if I get my Receptor back from the shop in time, will check out Ivory and Scarbee Rhodes/Wurly.
My predictions going in:
The Accugrooves will sound a little nicer on piano.
The EV's will have a little more juice for loud settings.
THe EV's will be a little more convenient and versatile.
I will struggle mightily to decide and second guess myself.
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#1938474 - 05/07/08 07:25 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Bobadohshe
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Gonna be a rough apples to oranges comparison if you're running stereo EVs vs one mono Accugroove.
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#1938482 - 05/07/08 07:36 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Bobadohshe]
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Beethree
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Gonna be a rough apples to oranges comparison if you're running stereo EVs vs one mono Accugroove.
Well yeah, that would be silly.
I will of course, listen to 1 vs. 1
This should give me a pretty clear idea on how they stack up sonically.
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#1938633 - 05/07/08 11:25 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Jazz+
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Excellent news! I think you better test with a mono piano patch?
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1938963 - 05/07/08 10:38 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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Jazz+
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I played a gig with a bass player that had a single 12" AccuGroove cabinet tonight. I must say it was a lot bulkier in dimension than my EV SXa360.
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1938987 - 05/08/08 12:54 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: SK]
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Jazz+
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I heard something about them making an amp?
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#1938989 - 05/08/08 12:57 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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SK
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Yeah, I heard that too J+. I also heard it's a ways off before we'll see it.
If it adds any weight to the cabinets, I'd think that would undermine one incentive for getting it, but I'm sure it will be a good product. "Super light" sounds good to me these days. 
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#1939216 - 05/08/08 10:13 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: SK]
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Bobadohshe
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Accugroove is developing their own power amp technology, and that's what the hold up is. They aren't simply partnering with QSC or some other power amp company. At NAMM they had their custom power amp driving their passive cabs. They do eventually plan on putting an amp in a speaker cab, but like you guys said, it's a ways off. And as SK said, it would indeed undermine one of the reasons we love this cab, the lightness.
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#1939258 - 05/08/08 11:19 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Bobadohshe]
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mate_stubb
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Accugroove is developing their own power amp technology, and that's what the hold up is. They aren't simply partnering with QSC or some other power amp company.
I can't say that this makes sense to me. Their experience is in cabinets and speakers, not amps. Unless they bring something entirely new to the table, there are plenty of power packs out there with proven reliability.
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#1939754 - 05/09/08 09:00 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: mate_stubb]
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bhodaway10
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I e-mailed AG - they told me this :
We will not have any powered versions anytime soon; maybe in another year?
B.
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#1939765 - 05/09/08 09:24 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: mate_stubb]
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Beethree
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My EV vs. Accugroove Shootout
-------------------------
I got home from a rehearsal last night and the EV's had arrived. I set it up next to the Accugroove this morning and spent about 3 hours noodling and comparing.
I purchased the EV's as "blemished" for a serious discount ($1499 for the pair). I examined the one that I opened pretty carefully, and couldn't find anything disconcerting at all. There was a TINY scuff on the bottom of the cabinet. I think the blemished status was mostly due to the package having been opened and returned. The owners manual was slightly less than pristine - you could tell someone had opened it and read it. That's about it.
The QSC Accugroove combo was set up side by side with the EV. I'll repeat (from an earlier post) that I only have one Accugroove and so I only set up one EV. Mano a Mono, as it were. I ran a Yamaha P250, and a Hammond XK3 (one at a time) into each set up. After a while I inserted a mixer into the chain to facilitate quicker A/B's and to have additional EQ at my disposal.
Set perfectly flat - simply put, the Accugroove set up wiped the floor with the SXA360. The Accugroove seems to have a little spike between 2 and 3k, but it is not unpleasant. I played slowly up and down the entire register of the piano, and no particular register junped out. Playing full 2 handed parts, everything was balanced, and I didn't feel like I had to particularly adjust the way I was playing.
THe EV, on the other hand, sounded kinda muddy out of the box. It seems to have
a pretty pronounced bump around 100hz. This is usually pleasing on vocals, or program material, but it made the Yamaha murky. I had to really think about laying off my left hand.
Pulling out a single drawbar on the Hammond and playing slowly up the keyboard confrimed the above impressions.
Bringing down the lows either on the P250 (set for 90hz) or on the mixer (fixed frequency, and I'm not sure what it is, but guessing in the 90-100 range) helped the EV quite a bit. Things still weren't AS even as the Accugroove, but it made it more playable. If this sounds like I am knocking the EV's, I am not - they sound very very good. Just needed a little more tweaking for me, my gear, my ears, in my basement to get at that goodness. I am being nitpicky because of the context and the audience - both setups are very nice indeed.
The Accugrooves seem to handle dynamics a little bit better as well. Playing quarter notes in a slow crescendo, you really feel that the tonal differences are due to the instrument, and not to how the amp/speaker is reacting. When cranked loudly the same is true. On the EV's you can hear some brightness creeping in as you get louder. The EV's ARE louder than the Accugrooves when fed the same signal, by the way.
So my impressions thus far are basically exactly what I expected going in:
The Accugrooves are a little nicer sounding overall.
The EV's are more convenient and sound just peachy.
I will struggle mightily with my decision and 2nd guess myself.
If I had to decide right this second, I would keep the EV's and send the Acugrooves back. The savings due to finding the discounted pair, plus not having to carry the power amp, plus the fact that you can set them up as wedge monitors all tilt the scale. I mostly play with bands, in venues with a PA. If I played primarily solo piano, and if the audience was mostly hearing my rig, I would absolutely go for the Accugrooves. I still might.
I can also sell my Barbetta, I think if I buy the EV's, since I can use one EV unadorned for rehearsals, small gigs, etc. but bringing one Accugroove would require bringing a rack.
In short - The SXA360's are a great set up. The Accugrooves/QSC set up is pretty special though.
I would love to hear from SXA360 owners about how they generally eq their rigs.
Do you find that you need to rolloff the lows?
I am a little concerned about doing drastic EQ. If my send to the house is pre-EQ, then what I'm sending is very different than what I am listening to, and if it is post-EQ, then I am sending drastically EQ' d signal based on my stage sound, which might be inappropriate otherwise.
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#1939812 - 05/09/08 10:32 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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mate_stubb
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Good post. How about low end response for organ bass?
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#1939828 - 05/09/08 11:13 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: mate_stubb]
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Jazz+
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I find that in live situations I don't need too roll off lows for my FP4 piano, I sometimes boost the mids and highs. I wear protective ear filters live. The FP4 piano has less mid lows than the Superior Grand in the 700 series, so it varies between different piano models. My Yamaha P120 never sounded very nice through my EV SXa360 speakers.
Was the mid range more detailed, with better clarity with the AccuGroove? How about not having a horn, doesn't that make it sound much gentler or less harsh up close? Does the AccuGroove sound a lot more natural?
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Live: Roland FP4 (33 lbs)+ gig bag, 2 EV SXa-360 powered speakers (36 lbs each), WS 550 stand
Sold: Kawai ES4, Yamaha P250, P120, P90. RD300SX, Kurz PC2X, Bose PAS, Mackie SRM450s, JBL EON10s,
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#1939839 - 05/09/08 11:41 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: mate_stubb]
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Beethree
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Good post. How about low end response for organ bass?
Either could handle it I think - THe Accugroove is a little more even down in the nether regions, but that little bass bump the EV seems to have might turn into an asset.
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#1939841 - 05/09/08 11:43 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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Legatoboy
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Very nice review Beethree... thanks for that one!
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#1939843 - 05/09/08 11:46 AM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Jazz+]
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Beethree
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Was the mid range more detailed, with better clarity with the AccuGroove? How about not having a horn, doesn't that make it sound much gentler or less harsh up close? Does the AccuGroove sound a lot more natural?
Yes to all 3. And the resonance of the wood cabinet seems to add a little realism to the piano, but that might be my imagination.
But again, the EV's are in no way bad and I may very well stick with them. For solo piano though, the QSC/AG setup is to my ears superior- at least with a P250 in my basement.
Unfortunately my Receptor is at Muse getting worked on - because I would love to try this with Ivory and with the Scarbee electric pianos. If I get ambitious I will break down the Yamaha and Hammond and set up my Nord Stage, just as another source I am familiar with.
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#1939851 - 05/09/08 12:00 PM
Re: Accugroove setup vs. SXA360 - who has heard /used both?
[Re: Beethree]
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SK
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Excellent review, Beethree. I had an idea it would turn out that way. I've heard nothing but good things about both setups, but I thought the Accugroove cabinets were probably superior to standard horn/plastic cabs. The EV's must be great to achieve such good sonority in that style cabinet.
Jazz+, I agree the FP4's low mid's and bottoms are weaker than the 700 series. The AG's have all the sound from the bottom up, so to speak, which bring out a warm, strong presence of mids, lower mids and bass. There's no need to bump them because they're already there, with no harshness or distortion that I've detected. The highs are there too in the 2 dome tweeters, which all can be adjusted to taste with a mixer.
I knew the AG's were special when I first set them up, because they virtually duplicated the 700SX 'Superior Grand' sound that I heard through my reference headphones, with no EQ.
That said, if the EV's had been available at the time, I would have given them a close look and very possibly bought them, for the other advantages mentioned. And I still plan to check them out.
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