#1936981 - 05/04/08 06:32 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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Chewbubba
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I saw a blurb on Sinatra in the paper today, but haven't read it yet.
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#1937075 - 05/05/08 03:35 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Chewbubba]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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Never liked Sinatra, I probably inherited that prejudice from my old man.
Mind you, he was a bit of an Al Jolson fan and I must say that I much prefer Al Jolson's voice to Sinatra's. It had a much darker, richer tone and on songs like "Always Chasing Rainbows" or "Sonny Boy"... wow, you just couldn't touch the guy. Best singer ever, IMHO.
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#1937079 - 05/05/08 04:14 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Big Daddy from Motown
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I tried to listen to the program but was disappointed in the performance quality. To my ears He was past his prime. It's hard to like someone who you've heard so much negative stuff about.
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#1937084 - 05/05/08 05:09 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Big Daddy from Motown]
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groover
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I wouldn't go as far to say he was the most impressive singer in my life, but I do enjoy hearing him sing. I especially like Sinatra as Nathan Detroit in Guys and Dolls. One of my all time favorite classic movies.
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#1937139 - 05/05/08 07:15 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: groover]
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mattulator
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Long time fan of The Chairman here. He had the whole package IMO.
Love that Rat Pack stuff too. Deano is da bomb!
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#1937160 - 05/05/08 07:47 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: mattulator]
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Nicklab
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Growing up in the NY/NJ area and being of a certain ethnic descent, I really had no choice but to be exposed to Sinatra as I was growing up. I heard him from the time I was born. Especially since my mother was a big fan.
Since that time I've become much more aware of the man's music and how he came up. I've heard the really early recordings with Tommy Dorsey, and I heard that he had been criticised for having a "small" voice. But as he aged his voice became huge. And I think he was a great interpreter of songs. He might have seemed a bit odd since he would only perform one take of a tune in the studio, but I think it kept the performances fresh. I think he was also very much aware that he was "just a singer" since he would make a point of crediting the writers and arrangers of songs when he was performing live. Funny thing, I remember reading that Jaco was a Sinatra fan, and loved the way he could turn a phrase.
Are there some negatives to Sinatra? Sure. There's an unsavory element that was drawn to him and it's a stain on the good names of a lot of people of a certain ethnic descent. But the lasting legacy is that we were left with a lot of great music by a truly gifted singer.
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#1937225 - 05/05/08 09:29 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: mattulator]
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Flemtone
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'Sinatra at the Sands' is in permanent rotation in my CD player. The combination of him and Basie's band is phenomenal. I liked a lot of the Dorsey-era stuff, but really thought he hit his stride with Basie and Nelson Riddle.
Then again, I was raised on this stuff. My father was a news broadcaster at WNEW in NY, where William B. Williams held court in the 'Make-believe Ballroom', hosted by the Chairman of the Board himself. My family and Willie B. were great friends and he told stories of Sinatra that were incredible.
He may not have been the nicest guy in the world, but he was a distinctive voice for the genre - second only to Tony Bennett who, to my ear, has a 'perfect' voice.
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#1937236 - 05/05/08 09:41 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Flemtone]
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Rocky MacDougall
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One unique aspects of his studio recordings was that he always wanted his friends and family as an audience in front of him. Being an entertainer, he needed to feed off of the audience even to make a studio recording. The 1965 TV production I watched was very well done and propably one on the earliest Color TV programs.
Rocky
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#1937268 - 05/05/08 10:18 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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Wally Malone
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I'd much rather listen to Mel Torme.
Wally
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#1937298 - 05/05/08 10:44 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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Bumpcity
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The Chairman had attitude and confidence to spare. That came across in his vocal delivery. I respect him a great deal for that.
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#1937339 - 05/05/08 11:41 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Flemtone]
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Jode
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He may not have been the nicest guy in the world, but he was a distinctive voice for the genre - second only to Tony Bennett who, to my ear, has a 'perfect' voice.
"Tony Bennett is the best goddamned singer in the world."
--Frank Sinatra
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#1937345 - 05/05/08 11:51 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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BargeOn
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Of the many books written on Sintara, one of the most interesting I've seen is one written by a recording engineer who was involved in the industry during it's golden age and with Sinatra through much of his recording sessions in the 50s and early 60s.
Sessions with Frank. . By Charles Granata
It's not the biographical stuff. It's how he used microphones, shaped his phrases and inflections, worked with arrangers, how he managed his image, etc. Some good technical details for musicians instead of the usual fluff for the fans.
Edited by BargeOn (05/05/08 11:52 AM)
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#1937365 - 05/05/08 12:23 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: BargeOn]
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jcdlc72
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+1 on the Sands album.  Basie & Sinatra was a killer combination back then.
And +1 on Tormé and Bennett, too. And turning 36 just today I still like to think of me as being far from an old folk. 
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#1937398 - 05/05/08 01:17 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: jcdlc72]
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Mudcat
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Hey - I've seen that TV show! I really enjoyed it. IIRC I couldn't help but notice some exposed cabling on the floor for one of the production pieces where he was on a very long riser. It's the sort of thing you would never see on a modern TV production. I don't know why, but that's the one thing that really sticks out in my memory fom that show.
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#1937408 - 05/05/08 01:30 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Mudcat]
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Phil W
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I usually manage to separate the personality and the music. Many people love Miles', Jaco's, Stan Getz and Frank's music (including me) regardless of some of their actions and attitudes. Everyone has done some things that others would disapprove of - myself not the least.
I love Frank's singing. I often think of him when I practise soloing or playing a melody as his phrasing and rhythmic feel were something else.
Frank's influence on Miles was significant. I think it was Ian Carr's biography that outlines the influence in terms of phrasing and also on repertoire. In Miles 50s music you can really hear the influence of Frank and also Ahmad Jamal's trio in Miles' music.
The really cool thing about Frank was that he was able to do what he did musically while being a mainstream pop artist. That was a different era.
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#1937483 - 05/05/08 03:24 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Phil W]
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Rocky MacDougall
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While my wife and I were watchig the show, we both teared up and she said, "you know, we are the last generation to understand this era in American music. These songs are not being written anymore." There are some Crooners, like Michael Buble and a few others, but for me, there is no Magic there. I guess I just live in the past. "The good old days"
Rocky
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#1937506 - 05/05/08 04:02 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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Jode
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While my wife and I were watchig the show, we both teared up and she said, "you know, we are the last generation to understand this era in American music. These songs are not being written anymore." There are some Crooners, like Michael Buble and a few others, but for me, there is no Magic there. I guess I just live in the past. "The good old days"
Rocky
Oh MAN, did you nail it. There is nothing remotely as touching as Sinatra on the radio these days. The songs suck bad enough, before you think about the way they're presented.
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#1937522 - 05/05/08 04:47 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Jode]
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forceman
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Harry Connick Jr. is a great singer as well. I'll bet there are some great tunes being written (in fact I know there are) but thy don't have the same venue(s) that were available back in the day.
And yes, I agree--the Velvet Fog (Mr. Mel Torme) was IMO one of the very best...
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#1937739 - 05/06/08 04:17 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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tnb
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What Wally said.
As for Sinatra 
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#1937780 - 05/06/08 06:02 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: tnb]
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Rocky MacDougall
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I think a unique quality of Sinatra's was a kind of Cocky- Arrogance, as if he knew he was great, but, it worked for him, when others could not get away with it. There were many wonderful singers during that "Big Band Dance Era" but Sinatra could, as I said before, "Sell the Song" like no one else. A lot of it was body language intune with the music.
Rocky
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#1937808 - 05/06/08 06:51 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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forceman
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I cannot see how anyone can dis Sinatra. Like him or not, he had great pipes and was a major force on the scene for decades.
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#1938118 - 05/06/08 02:50 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: forceman]
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Lowtones11
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I wasn't fortunate enough to catch Sinatra. I can say that I totally appreciate his phrasing based on the many recordings I have heard of him. To me his recordings with Basie illustrate Sinatra at his finest. His ability to move back and in front of the beat without screwing with the groove move me something good. I'm sure some of it had to do with band. Holy crap, say swing!
I was lucky enough to have parents to take me to jazz concerts when I was younger. Because of that I caught the Basie Band twice, once before Basie's death when I was around 9 years old and once after his death. Neither time did the singer (yes I realize that I probably didn't know what I was listening for as a 9 year old)didn't phrase or have the musical sensiblity that FS had.
The time I was 9, I saw Basie fronted by Dennis Rowland at Finney Chapel in Oberlin, Ohio. I remember pretty much everything about that show. To be honest, I have formed a lot of my opinion about Dennis Rowland since then as I have played with him and have seen him around Phoenix 75+ times over the years. I truly believe Dennis is a true resource of jazz wealht and am lucky to get to hear him and be around him. With that being said, Frank still had the smoover working and is my preference.
The other time I caught Basie's band was with George Benson. Now in my opinion, George is one bad man with the guitar and as a singer. However, Sinatra is still the bag of chips to me. George Benson fell quite a bit short. That's hard for me to say as I really enjoy George. egh!
I think the Basie Band is a good vehicle to compare all three singers with the swingingest band around (my opinion again). I think it was a good way to measure all 3 guys with the same canvas to work on as way to remove variables.
Thanks Rocky for bringing back some good memories especially going to shows with my folks. I didn't realize it at the time but i was a lucky kid.
I wish I was able to see Frank in his prime do his thing.
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#1938143 - 05/06/08 03:34 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Lowtones11]
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Rocky MacDougall
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My Dad, who passed away in 1961 loved music, although he played no instrument. He was a great singer and had passion for the music. I remember many times at family get-togethers, he would stand next to our grand piano and my aunt would play. Most of the music was Big Band swing, so I was exposed at a very early age. He loved Frank Sinatra, Brook Benton, Nat King Cole, Mario Lanza and many more. Oh my! Too many memories.
Rocky
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#1938171 - 05/06/08 04:40 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Rocky MacDougall]
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forceman
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Great post--great memories, Rocky! 
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#1938931 - 05/07/08 08:44 PM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: forceman]
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rizzo9247
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FYI: Every Sunday and Wednesday in May TCM (Turner Classic Movies) is showing Sinatra films. Contact your local cable/satellite provider for more information
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#1939152 - 05/08/08 08:19 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: rizzo9247]
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jeremy c
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Time to mail a letter.
The Sinatra stamp comes out next week.
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#1939574 - 05/09/08 05:29 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: jeremy c]
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Flemtone
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Thanks, JC.
By the way, I like how you've convinced the USPS to match the blue background of the Sinatra stamp to the bass in your avatar. When you talk, people listen.
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#1939671 - 05/09/08 07:28 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: tnb]
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Davo-London
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What I appreciate Sinatra for is his delivery. He was always able to present a song in a unique but completely authoritive way, such that you thought he owned the song. Regardless of whether it was Basie or The Beatles, you really thought it was Sinatras. That's an incredible gift.
You hear anyone else sing Chicago or New York New York and no matter how good, it is just an imitation of the real thing.
Am I the only one that thinks like that?
Davo
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#1939701 - 05/09/08 08:05 AM
Re: Sinatra, A man and his music.
[Re: Davo-London]
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C. Alexander C.
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If my CD of Sinatra at The Sands was an LP I'd have worn it out a good few times over. The baddest of bad cats.
Alex
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