#1931949 - 04/24/08 03:32 PM
Coil-Tapped HB's
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Dave da Dude
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First, a little back-story here. As some of you may remember, I was... "trying"... to win an Ibanez RG600WP (the WP meaning it was the Wine Pearl color of my long lost... stolen... Cream Cheese and Jelly). I lost! 
Now I have my eyes on a RG530WP, which is the same guitar, except... not active HB's (neither was the 600, they'd been switched out), but pups tapped and a Tremolo instead of fixed bridge.
Now... in the meantime, I saw a bunch of Electra guitars for sale. I had one from a Pawn Shop, the Electra Phoenix, X175JB. None of those were for sale, but quite a few others were... just generally too much money for my domestic water pocketbook.
BUT... in reading about them, here... Electra Model Index... I found this very interesting information...
The full potential of the H-S-H was also made possible by innovative unbalanced coil pickups that Tom had developed in concert with Matsumoku technicians. Normal humbuckers have a pair of equal coils, and coil tapping one out leaves a single remaining coil that isn’t very much like the rich overtones of a strat or tele single coil, it’s just thin.
Which I had begun to suspect myself from everything I've read and heard over the past six or seven years (the span of my true education about electric guitars... here at the Forum of course>.
But then...
The new MMK45 pickups that were included in all the Electra Phoenix had a pair of coils with different cores, magnets, and windings. One coil was wound for rich high frequencies, the other for lower response. The effect was akin to upgrading from a single stereo speaker to a woofer and tweeter- both ends were better represented.
When coil tapped, MMK45’s drop the bass coil, and the remaining treble coil is more like a tele neck pickup- strong and sweet.
So my questions are:
1) Is this true? (That's why a tapped HB never quite sounds like a true SC, and that doing this would "solve" the problem.)
2) Does anyone produce humbuckers like that today?
Any help would be useful. Thanks in advance guys. 
PS: If you're trying to find where it says that, it's near the bottom of the Index Page under "Electra Phoenix and Electra Westone Models:" and any of the X185's... X185RD being red and so forth.
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Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need".
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#1931987 - 04/24/08 05:47 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: Dave da Dude]
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caprae
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Someone has a patent on the mixed coil pickups. But if you are into it, here is at least 16 pages of custom hybrid pickup goodness from our friends at the Seymour Duncan forum. I've bought a couple of these, but then sold the guitar I was going to put them in.
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#1932090 - 04/25/08 02:21 AM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: caprae]
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GeoffB
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I think DiMarzio do something like that in some of their 'buckers, but I have to tell you a DiMarzio Dual Sound tapped sounds pretty good. The single coil rates about 6.5K on average - my neck & mid pups are 6.8 & 6.7K & sound pretty decent.
I have a tapped Dual Sound on my Ibanez Studio ST-105 and most of the time I'm playing I use it tapped (live coil is further from the bridge).
I had a tapped PAF on there for a while, but the single coil is too thin, as you mentioned, but the 'bucker sounded good.
G.
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#1932738 - 04/26/08 09:00 AM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: caprae]
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Dave da Dude
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Someone has a patent on the mixed coil pickups.
...as I confirmed in my edit above.  Thanks for the info. 
.... .... I've bought a couple of these, but then sold the guitar I was going to put them in.
I'm not much of a electronics / soldering kinda' guy, so... "just"... buying them appeals to me. 
Just out of curiosity, IF you don't mind saying, how much did you pay for them?
I have a tapped Dual Sound on my Ibanez Studio ST-105 and most of the time I'm playing I use it tapped (live coil is further from the bridge).
I had a tapped PAF on there for a while, but the single coil is too thin, as you mentioned, but the 'bucker sounded good.
Geoff, but how does the Dual Sound sound as a 'bucker? I've read (not heard for myself though) that the DiMarzio HB's are more trebly and "thin" than the Seymour Duncan HB's.
_________________________
Gotta' geetar... got the amp. There must be SOMEthing else I... "need".
One step at a time... burp... GAS... burp... GAS...
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#1932826 - 04/26/08 01:26 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: GeoffB]
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soggybomb
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I think DiMarzio do something like that in some of their 'buckers, but I have to tell you a DiMarzio Dual Sound tapped sounds pretty good. The single coil rates about 6.5K on average - my neck & mid pups are 6.8 & 6.7K & sound pretty decent.
I have a tapped Dual Sound on my Ibanez Studio ST-105 and most of the time I'm playing I use it tapped (live coil is further from the bridge).
I had a tapped PAF on there for a while, but the single coil is too thin, as you mentioned, but the 'bucker sounded good.
G.
+1
Air Norton PUPs sound pretty good tapped too.
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#1932851 - 04/26/08 03:03 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: Dave da Dude]
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GeoffB
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Someone has a patent on the mixed coil pickups. ...as I confirmed in my edit above. Thanks for the info. .... .... I've bought a couple of these, but then sold the guitar I was going to put them in. I'm not much of a electronics / soldering kinda' guy, so... "just"... buying them appeals to me. Just out of curiosity, IF you don't mind saying, how much did you pay for them? I have a tapped Dual Sound on my Ibanez Studio ST-105 and most of the time I'm playing I use it tapped (live coil is further from the bridge).
I had a tapped PAF on there for a while, but the single coil is too thin, as you mentioned, but the 'bucker sounded good. Geoff, but how does the Dual Sound sound as a 'bucker? I've read (not heard for myself though) that the DiMarzio HB's are more trebly and "thin" than the Seymour Duncan HB's.
I don't have any experience with SDs to compare, but I'm awfully happy with the DDS in overdrive mode - it's great as a bucker or cut back some as a single coil. I have to say I'm not crazy about it clean - but then.......that's why I have a PAF in the neck!
There's plenty around (Ebay) - give it a go?
G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix
Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.
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#1932901 - 04/26/08 06:14 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: GeoffB]
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MILLO
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I have two handwound Alnico 2 humbuckers on the Carvin kit and I have to say while not being EXACTLY what a strat is (obviously), the neck single coild tapped sounds VERY decent. Plenty of meat and good Strat-like stringiness... the stringiness that kinda gives that "quack", good "oo" singing sound.
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#1932909 - 04/26/08 06:30 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: MILLO]
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picker
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My Hamer Special FM has two Duncans, A JB in the bridge and a Vintage 59 in in the neck. I had a coil tap installed that cuts the two inside coils. The neck p/up gets very Stratty-sounding with the coil is cut, close enough that I feel fine about using it for a Strat sound. The bridge p/up gets more of a Tele than Strat-type vibe. That works just fine for me, as I like the Tele Bridge p/up much more than any strat's I ever heard. I never hearda coil tap on a Les Paul style guitar sound as good as that one. think it has to do with both the maple top and the shorter scale length, which give the guitar a very cold, hard sort of "clang" instead of a muzzy "hum" when picked with new strings.
Edited by Picker (04/26/08 06:31 PM)
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#1933880 - 04/28/08 06:33 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: Dave da Dude]
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MILLO
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Mind you, I HAD a 24-fret Carvin neck-through-body axe w/ a Flyd, and tapping the coil sounded very thin and not very strat-y, so it DOES happen. However, it was very useful, for strumming chords alla acoustic axe, and other things...
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#1933904 - 04/28/08 07:42 PM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: MILLO]
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Scott Fraser
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Mind you, I HAD a 24-fret Carvin neck-through-body axe w/ a Flyd, and tapping the coil sounded very thin and not very strat-y, so it DOES happen. However, it was very useful, for strumming chords alla acoustic axe, and other things...
I have a Carvin AE185, also neck-through, with a pair of humbuckers & I have to say I prefer them in the single coil mode. Just a taste thing, I grew up with a Strat. For me it's really about getting away from the big midrange bump most humbuckers have. I can get all the lows I need from a single coil, but no tone control can really tame the big midrange boost of a humbucker. Purely subjective taste.
Scott Fraser
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#1933942 - 04/29/08 01:16 AM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: Scott Fraser]
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GeoffB
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When I've set this up recently, I 'wangled' it so the active coil is the one further from the bridge. Most times it's the coil nearer the bridge and I think some of these are too near, and the available signal from the string is very small, leading to a thin sound.
Getting the coil a bit further into the string makes for a better tone.
Compare how far away from the bridge the Strat pup lies, to where the nearest coil is on a Les Paul. The LP is *much* nearer to the bridge than the Strat. The further coil is nearer the approximate position of the Strat. To achieve this, you may have to physically take out the pickup & turn it round 180 degrees.
Geoff
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace": Jimi Hendrix
Frank M:Back in the day you could have a trio with two people.
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#1934047 - 04/29/08 06:24 AM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: Scott Fraser]
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MILLO
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Mind you, I HAD a 24-fret Carvin neck-through-body axe w/ a Flyd, and tapping the coil sounded very thin and not very strat-y, so it DOES happen. However, it was very useful, for strumming chords alla acoustic axe, and other things... I have a Carvin AE185, also neck-through, with a pair of humbuckers & I have to say I prefer them in the single coil mode. Just a taste thing, I grew up with a Strat. For me it's really about getting away from the big midrange bump most humbuckers have. I can get all the lows I need from a single coil, but no tone control can really tame the big midrange boost of a humbucker. Purely subjective taste. Scott Fraser
...and of course, there's that thing about personal taste. Like I said I think the pups on my current guitars and Carvin's newer pups, which I've tried on their CT4 and CT3 (I think H22 and C22) sound to me a whole lot more convincing and Strat-like than how I remember my old DC127C sounding.
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#1934054 - 04/29/08 06:28 AM
Re: Coil-Tapped HB's
[Re: MILLO]
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MILLO
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My guitars are set up so that when split the active coil is the one closest to the fretboard. On the Carvin kit ("High Order" handwound alnico 2 magnet pickups) it sounds great, on the Ibanez (stock Ibanez alnico 5 magnets, I think) it sounds good, but much better when playing w/ early break-up/low gain overdrive sounds.
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