#1931606 - 04/24/08 06:28 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Though they have announced that XP will not be for sale soon (June? July?) many if not most audio applications vendors are still recommending and writing for XP.
Cakewalk is one of the companies that jumped into Vista, andf they seem to have done well by it.
But for many of us, the elimination of MME was an issue (though, forcing me to learn to use ASIO was nto a horrible thing and gave me some options that I did not have in the past , MME is still a prefered approach in my world).
In general, Microsoft releases the occasional dog, from which they learn and put out the next product that is much better. They are not the only ones, it used to be that one would only buy every other version of Cakewalk, knowing that every other version would suck... but it would lead to better things. Microsoft's TopView (which became Windows), Windows 3.0 (arguably ... it wasn't so great, but it only took the interim releases of 3.1 and 3.11 to make it work, instead of a new product...), and Windows Millenium Edition are some of their less successful offerings. Windows 2000 was still too much like my old friend, NT, for the masses; though it brought the stability and some of the features of NT into a familiar GUI format for recordists, it was still too much of a shift for most people.
Bottom line... unless you NEED to use Vista for a particular purpose, stick with XP.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1931609 - 04/24/08 06:33 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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...It looks as though Windows 7 is going to be in support of the Microsoft Surface touchscreen thingy. That should be great fun when mixing!
The ergonomics of a touch screen are horrible for long term computer use in recording. Imagine 8 to 20 hour days of constantly stretching out your arm, pointing your finger, and rubbing the surface of one of two or three screens at eye level in front of you. Put the screen on the desk, you say? Ow, my aching neck! Oh yes, and now the customers have to lean over your shoulder....
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1931615 - 04/24/08 06:49 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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A String
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I have an old laptop with a touch screen. It's amazing for short use, but for long use, I had two problems with it. One was, as Bill was saying, your arm gets very tired after a while. The other problem is, it becomes addictive. After a long session of using that laptop, with every other laptop I'd use over the next few days, I poke the screen...
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#1931620 - 04/24/08 06:53 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: A String]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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... After a long session of using that laptop, with every other laptop I'd use over the next few days, I poke the screen...
Yeah, and all his friends are brused....
Bill
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#1931655 - 04/24/08 08:05 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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MILLO
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Cool... My main concern w/ OS chosen was availability of audio/music applications for a period of say, two years.
A touch screen would be nice for drawing, but yeah, I can imagine it being sorta bad for your arm, wrist/carpal tunnel for long periods of time.
Thanks!
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#1931668 - 04/24/08 08:20 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Cool... My main concern w/ OS chosen was availability of audio/music applications for a period of say, two years.
If you go over to the SAWStudio forum (a pretty expensive, not so well know, pretty much bulletproof and killer app) you'll find guys there still using Windows 2000. Your OS is not going to stop working when someone releases a new one, and the apps guys are not in any hurry to rewrite their already working code to fit some quirk of a new OS. No fear on the two year thing.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1931670 - 04/24/08 08:25 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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A String
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Yeah, I love Vista, but I'd stay with something that is better supported for now.
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#1931682 - 04/24/08 08:45 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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miroslav
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... you'll find guys there still using Windows 2000.
Guilty as charged! 
I'm still using W2K for my Samplitude DAW...and it works great!
But...mine is a dedicated, stripped down, system...it has no Internet connection and is not used for ANYTHING else except DAW work.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1931903 - 04/24/08 02:57 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: miroslav]
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Justus A. Picker
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... you'll find guys there still using Windows 2000. Guilty as charged! I'm still using W2K for my Samplitude DAW...and it works great! But...mine is a dedicated, stripped down, system...it has no Internet connection and is not used for ANYTHING else except DAW work.
I used Windows ME until I switched to Vista.
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#1931905 - 04/24/08 03:09 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I used Windows ME until I switched to Vista.
I consider that to be impressively hard core!
I used ME for like, two or three months on a test machine that I used to have for beta work (could not risk a mission critical studio machine on beta anything...)and I could not WAIt to loose it. There were a lot of high hopes for that OS. The Rock 'N Roll GirlFriend was still using ME on her machine unti last year. Younz guyz is tough!
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1931910 - 04/24/08 03:30 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Justus A. Picker
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I used Windows ME until I switched to Vista. I consider that to be impressively hard core! I used ME for like, two or three months on a test machine that I used to have for beta work (could not risk a mission critical studio machine on beta anything...)and I could not WAIt to loose it. There were a lot of high hopes for that OS. The Rock 'N Roll GirlFriend was still using ME on her machine unti last year. Younz guyz is tough! Bill
I didn't have much trouble with it. If I really pushed it with multiple softsynths and multiple instances of a convolution reverb it would freeze or crash but I just learned what to avoid. I've tried to crash Vista and, so far, no cigar.
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#1932188 - 04/25/08 07:17 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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I've tried to crash Vista and, so far, no cigar.
My computers don't crash, and I've no idea what those wh do suffer constant crashes are doing.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1932243 - 04/25/08 08:25 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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MILLO
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...any experience w/ ibuypower PC's? Silly name, seems to go for the gaming crowd w/ silly cases, etc...
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#1932314 - 04/25/08 10:20 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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MILLO
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Hey Bill, this house w/ a recording studio is in Pflugerville, just North of Austin:
http://www.michellesheehan.com/MyHomeDtl.asp?HomeID=682631&P=8
Just thought I'd show you, not pushing the product or anything. Now I see this link doesn't have extra pics. I got a card from another lady w/ pics of the house inside, she put them in the academy I teach at, which is in Pflugerville.
As I'm sure is a common case in many places, houses in the suburbs and outskirts of Austin are obviously far cheaper per sq ft than in the urban area.
"Nice" city neighborhoods include Travis Heights, Hyde Park, French Place and now an area in S Austin--whose name escapes me but is close [South/Southwest] to the "SoCo shopping" area (South Congress Ave where you'll find The Continental Club)--is being rehab'ed, seeing some modernized houses, VERY cool units, but obviously those tend to be pretty expensive.
Edited by MILLO (04/25/08 10:37 AM)
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#1932326 - 04/25/08 10:32 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Justus A. Picker
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I've tried to crash Vista and, so far, no cigar. My computers don't crash, and I've no idea what those wh do suffer constant crashes are doing. Bill
A lot of times it seems to be the freebie plug-ins that cause crashes. Earlier versions of Sonar sometimes had a problem with various VST plugins. They had banked on DX and DXi becoming more popular and didn't provide native VST support. The adapter could prove buggy.
Softsynths also eat up a bunch of CPU cycles, particularly if large sample sets are involved. Straight audio is usually no problem, it's the other stuff that gets wiggy!
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#1932904 - 04/26/08 07:18 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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MILLO
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What have you heard about (and not heard from  ) these computer cases, if anything? http://www.coolermaster.com/microsite/Cosmos/
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#1932937 - 04/26/08 08:29 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: soggybomb]
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Griffinator
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-get at 2 GB of RAM. Less is worthless, and more is unstable, even in 64-bit XP or Vista.
What evidence do you have to support this claim?
Granted, the 2GB and 4GB sticks may have their compatibility issues, but a 4-stick motherboard fully loaded with 1GB sticks is perfectly stable - and as cheap as 1GB is these days, it's silly not to take advantage of such a config if it's available.
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#1932938 - 04/26/08 08:34 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Griffinator
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My computers don't crash, and I've no idea what those wh(o) do suffer constant crashes are doing.
1) Failing to properly secure them with a good (third party, not Windows) firewall, or...
2) Dabbling in crackware, untested "freeware" (hey, look, I just took first-semester C# in college and then wrote this VSTi, try it out!) etc.
3) Downloading "free" porn
Just a few thoughts. Other potential operator errors exist as well.
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#1932970 - 04/26/08 10:39 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Griffinator]
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soggybomb
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-get at 2 GB of RAM. Less is worthless, and more is unstable, even in 64-bit XP or Vista. What evidence do you have to support this claim? Granted, the 2GB and 4GB sticks may have their compatibility issues, but a 4-stick motherboard fully loaded with 1GB sticks is perfectly stable - and as cheap as 1GB is these days, it's silly not to take advantage of such a config if it's available.
Experience. I originally had 4 X 1gb sticks in my system and it gave me so much trouble that I just ripped them out. They only worked well in 64-bit Ubuntu, but since I only use that for 3-d rendering apps like Maya, I couldn't sacrifice the stability in XP. I haven't noticed a performance drop for any applications other than Photoshop CS3, and games like Crysis (which is slow even on the most high-end machines with 98oo GX2 videocards).
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#1933007 - 04/27/08 05:11 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Try Anntec. For years, consistantly the best cases. Enermax (makers of good quality, usually pretty quiet power supplies) makes a whole line of 'Whisper' products, and I had bought both an Antec case and a complete Whisper setup, and I thought that the Antec was a better product. Last year when I built my new machine, an Antec case was included... P-182 I think was the model number. The power supply mounts in a chamber the bottom (instead of on top as in a regular case), and little sliders clamp down on the cables, closing off the chamber from the main section of the computer case so as not to transfer any noise between the two spaces. As I picked a Zan fanless power supply, this helped to make the machine even quieter. The only problem was that the motherboard that I picked had a connector all the way at the top of te case, so I had to build an extension for one of the molex connectors beacuse the supplied cable on the power supply was not long enough. It was only four pins and no big deal... I cut the supplied cable, and soldered an extra few inches of wire into the length, a little heatshrink, and done. Probably took ten or fifteen minutes.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1933033 - 04/27/08 06:53 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: soggybomb]
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Griffinator
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-get at 2 GB of RAM. Less is worthless, and more is unstable, even in 64-bit XP or Vista. What evidence do you have to support this claim? Granted, the 2GB and 4GB sticks may have their compatibility issues, but a 4-stick motherboard fully loaded with 1GB sticks is perfectly stable - and as cheap as 1GB is these days, it's silly not to take advantage of such a config if it's available. Experience. I originally had 4 X 1gb sticks in my system and it gave me so much trouble that I just ripped them out. They only worked well in 64-bit Ubuntu, but since I only use that for 3-d rendering apps like Maya, I couldn't sacrifice the stability in XP. I haven't noticed a performance drop for any applications other than Photoshop CS3, and games like Crysis (which is slow even on the most high-end machines with 98oo GX2 videocards).
So based on your single bad experience, you decree that it's an industry-wide problem?
Perhaps it was just your model motherboard that couldn't handle the extra RAM.
Perhaps it was just your particular installation of Windows that didn't agree with it.
Perhaps it was just a random transistor somewhere in the FSB on your particular motherboard that was shorted, and caused you trouble.
Perhaps your 4 sticks weren't in matched pairs.
There are a million reasons why you had that experience. None of them are "no computer is stable with 4x1GB RAM"
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#1933044 - 04/27/08 07:16 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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miroslav
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My computers don't crash, and I've no idea what those who do suffer constant crashes are doing.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1933070 - 04/27/08 08:48 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: miroslav]
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MILLO
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I've used the word "crash" when I actually meant "freeze"--perhaps many people do that as well.
I've FROZEN Macs G3 and 4's, old iMac, as well as as some PC's (Dells). Mine (old AMD Athlon XP whatever from 2001, the only 'puter I've actually ever BOUGHT) has only frozen b/c of viruses... remember MS Blaster or something like that? After fixing that (I think 2004) it got some quirks.
Edited by MILLO (04/27/08 08:48 AM)
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