#1930608 - 04/22/08 07:44 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bluesape
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Acer is familiar, but computing wizards like Craig, Miro, Caprae, and others prolly have good input for ya.
Quality internal hardware means more than the name on the case, and when I replace this system, my buddy Craig will be building the new unit.
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#1930618 - 04/22/08 08:00 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bluesape]
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MILLO
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Quality internal hardware means more than the name on the case
Motherboard, power supplies, cpu fans, so much other stuff one can choose from!
I think up to this moment I've come to the conclusion I do not want to spend too much on the computer, since LATER I'll be needing to spend on software, recording interface, etc.
I'll check later on for the experts' opinions.
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#1930686 - 04/22/08 10:03 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
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MILLO
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Like Craig just did for me (he is shipping it tomorrow!!!  ) Buy the bare case and he builds it up from there using great components, and he knows what goes together to get optimum performance.  thanks for the recommendation, guys... that was something I had being considering, yet I thought it'd be good to ask a few questions around here before I bombarded his inbox w/ PC-newbie question, LOL!!!
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#1930694 - 04/22/08 10:23 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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The PC is a tool? If so, what is it's purpose?
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#1930695 - 04/22/08 10:28 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Trucks
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"are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?"
Nope. :-)
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#1930710 - 04/22/08 11:13 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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MILLO
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The PC is a tool? If so, what is it's purpose?
It seems I'd want to use a reliable, stable 64-bit OS, a powerful processor that doesn't go obsolete and can't efficiently handle the applications I use it for soon after getting it, good connectivity options (sounds like I might get a Firewire interface w/ mic inputs). Not sure what recording software I'd be using and at this moment seems irrelevant, since I haven't used any FOR REAL in a long, long time. It seems I'd want some sort of "office suite", most likely Sibelius, drum/percussion programming software (hopefully depending on what the situation calls for I can write parts on Sibelius and use them for recordings), maybe amp-modeling software like Amplitube, maybe I'd want decent orchestral and percussion samples--not too extensive a sample library since it won't be a full-time thing.
I've thought about a laptop but man those things are expensive.
If those Acer and Systemax machines can be had for $1K, maybe I won't need to spend more than $1K-$1.5K to get those types CPU's and RAM specs including monitor (display)... or maybe I will need to spend more to get those types of CPU's and RAM specs along w/ quality [cool, quiet] case, RAM chips, hard drive, motherboards, connections, etc.
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#1930727 - 04/22/08 12:05 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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"E-mail, word-processing, music score-writing, home recording (maybe every once in a while doing demo recordings for others for a bit of a side profit), creating flyers and brochures, basic database stuff, MAYBE PowerPoint presentations (but a laptop would be more practical--this depends on what the Fall 08/Spring 09 would bring... I might find myself teaching music theory/guitar history classes). "
NONE of this takes much of a machine. Plus, as long as the audio requirements are modest, it doesn't take a lot to record a handful of tracks and play them back, either. So I'd say that a $500 to $750 laptop would be IDEAL for your needs. Spend a little extra money on memory and hard disk size.
"I'd want to use a reliable, stable 64-bit OS, "
Waste of money. Not many audio apps are there yet, and I doubt that they are going to be really applying themselves to this task for a while yet. No sense in buying for that today when buying on a budget, given your stated needs.
"I've thought about a laptop but man those things are expensive."
Not at all. I built a pricy Asus laptop for recording, cost me over $2k. The wife uses it for her email. I drag a >$600 Dell E1505 around to do most 2 to 4 track live recording. Probably handle a lot more, but I haven't needed more since I've been using this machine for that purpose. (and if faced with a higher track count need, I'd probably err on the side of trying to be smarter rather than dumber, and take the Asus...) It is my all-round machine, I'm typing on it now, and it runs powerpoint, and all the typical crap needed by the daily computer usuer who does not care about games. I run Sequoia, and I had Band in a Box on it too (took it off because of the small hard disk in this machine...)and I've got EZ Drummer loaded (might even run it some day).
"If those Acer and Systemax machines can be had for $1K, maybe I won't need to spend more than $1K-$1.5K to get those types CPU's and RAM specs including monitor (display)... "
You can 'upgrade' an old machine... last year I built my own with the latest Asus motherboard, 2 gigs of RAM, a couple of hard drives, an E6700 processor, new graphics card, new fanless tower case, fanless PS, and a whole bunch of silencing stuff, for about $1500. I already had the display and keyboard/mouse, but I pretty much replaced EVERYTHING else.
Listen, you can't buy for the future with computers, you need to buy for today. By the time the future comes, your plans to future-proof the machine will have been made redundant. Trust me on this, I've tried that trick many times, it has no legs in the computer world. If you really want to save a few bucks (not many) you can buy refurbished, or you can go to the Dell store and get a returned laptop, saving some small amount but still saving.
"Mrs Millo are scoping the Austin house market..."
Let me know how it goes. The Rock 'N Roll GirlFriend and I were looking over the Fort Meyers Fla area last week, but Austin and San Antonio are also on the list.
Bill
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#1930768 - 04/22/08 01:33 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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MILLO
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cool, thanks!
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#1930777 - 04/22/08 02:15 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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soggybomb
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its usually cheaper to build rather than buy, seeing as the job can usually be done within an hour if its your first build. prices on high-performance parts have significantly dropped during the past year, and seeing your needs, you don't need a powerful machine to begin with. here are some general recommendations-
- stick to intel core 2 cpus. AMD simply can't match performance at this juncture
- if there was one area in your build that i would spend more money on for a top-shelf component, as opposed to a more standard part, it would be for a high-quality soundcard. Creative has this area nailed with their excellent X-Fi series cards, which can be had for as little as $70.
-get at 2 GB of RAM. Less is worthless, and more is unstable, even in 64-bit XP or Vista.
-I would still stick to a 32-bit Windows OS, and if you really demand a 64-bit OS, then dual-boot Ubuntu Linux.
A fabulous forum to ask PC questions would be the MaximumPC Forum in the Help Me Buy/Build section.
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#1930816 - 04/22/08 03:22 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: soggybomb]
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A String
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Tiger Direct has some great "Bare Bones" kits that come with most of the stuff you need. For Recording, I would go with:
-Intel or Nvidia Chipset.
-Core 2 Duo (or Quad) (Not Duel Core!) CPU.
-Dual Channel DDR2 Corsair Ram (2 gigs is perfect).
-Either 7200rpm or 10,000 rpm HD with 16mb cache.
-A good sound card or you could use what Lee is using, the Tascam US144 which is sort of an external sound card.
You should use two hard drives if you can afford it. One for the OS and one for recording to.
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#1930859 - 04/22/08 05:05 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: A String]
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MILLO
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Thanks a bunch, Craig!
Edited by MILLO (04/22/08 05:22 PM)
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#1930876 - 04/22/08 05:58 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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For recording, I would not go with a low budget barebones kit.
Look for an Asus motherboard, and look for a better sturdier case. The cheapest ones vibrate and are noisy. Bob Lentini of SAWStudio just addressed this today or yesterday, and his experiences parallel mine... Asus is the way to go. Cheaper motherboards do not always follow spec, and are usually cheaper for some reason ro another.... poor grounding is often the issue, but shared components and poor choices in the CMOS are up there, too. Intel also makes killer motherboards, but tend to be pricy.
Bill
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#1930884 - 04/22/08 06:30 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: soggybomb]
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MILLO
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its usually cheaper to build rather than buy, seeing as the job can usually be done within an hour if its your first build. prices on high-performance parts have significantly dropped during the past year, and seeing your needs, you don't need a powerful machine to begin with. here are some general recommendations- - stick to intel core 2 cpus. AMD simply can't match performance at this juncture - if there was one area in your build that i would spend more money on for a top-shelf component, as opposed to a more standard part, it would be for a high-quality soundcard. Creative has this area nailed with their excellent X-Fi series cards, which can be had for as little as $70. -get at 2 GB of RAM. Less is worthless, and more is unstable, even in 64-bit XP or Vista. -I would still stick to a 32-bit Windows OS, and if you really demand a 64-bit OS, then dual-boot Ubuntu Linux. A fabulous forum to ask PC questions would be the MaximumPC Forum in the Help Me Buy/Build section.
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#1930885 - 04/22/08 06:36 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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MILLO
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What are good, quiet cases? Power supplies? CPU cooling fans?
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#1930915 - 04/22/08 07:49 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Well, as I said before... from what yoyu say that you want to do, a laptop will do just fine, be cheaper, more portable, and easy.
But if you really want to go the 'build your own' route (which is not hard) I can give you the pieces/parts list that I bought last year, though undoubtedly there are newer/better choices this year. I bought most everything through Newegg.com. Great service, reasonable shipping, quick shipping, and all in all, a good place to source stuff. Even when they didn't have the bets price, once I figured in shipping from anyone else, they did.
Bill
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#1931029 - 04/23/08 05:39 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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A String
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For recording, I would not go with a low budget barebones kit.
Actually, a lot of their barebones kits are quite good but I do agree, stay away from the cheap ones.
Has Asus finally pulled their heads out of their asses? They were top of the line for years and then out of no where, there stuff just started to suck and become unreliable.
The new big thing in motherboards right now is the Nvidia boards. Quick, stable and reliable plus an extra on-board processor dedicated to supporting Nvidia video cards.
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#1931051 - 04/23/08 06:36 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: A String]
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MILLO
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I've eyed a few Asus laptops that seem quite interesting... also some nForce-motherboard barebone desktop kits from TigerDirect.
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#1931071 - 04/23/08 06:59 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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MILLO
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...and what's the word on Vista these days? Still working like crap?
Is XP still more stable for audio applications? I am NOT familiar w/ Vista at all--this machine is almost 7 yrs old (LOL!) so I work on XP.
I thought, w/ Sonar been out in 64-bit for like a year or so, most other audio applications would soon join in. Any word on actual practical differences of 64-bit? Noticed any more multi-tasking capacity, speed? Just curious.
So, up to the moment we have these components recommended:
1-Asus or nForce motherboard
2-Intel Core 2 Duo or Quad over AMD's CPU's
3-SoundBlaster soundcard? (what other would be good? Would an external firewire interface function as soundcard as well?)
4-2 MB of RAM
5-what do you think: nVidia vid card over ATI Radeon? (I guess it'd depend on models)
6-for constant recording usage: 2 hard drives (if single drive I think I'll get 500GB)
(preferred brands? Seagate Glyph Maxtor Western Digital Samsung???
ANYTHING ELSE CRUCIAL?
Bill: I seem to remember you got some "special" Firewire connection involving a PCIe or something.
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#1931207 - 04/23/08 10:34 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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miroslav
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...and what's the word on Vista these days? Still working like crap?
I'm not using it...but the forum chatter here and elsewhere shows that Vista is hit-n-miss.
Some people say it sucks and none of their stuff works right...others say it's smooth-as-silk.
But...since Bill Gates just recently announced that Vista may be getting phased out as early as next year...I have NO plans to even try it out...unless we get it rammed down our throats at my day gig (last I heard, our bulk computer purchase for the fall will still come with XP...not Vista).
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#1931233 - 04/23/08 11:23 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: miroslav]
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MILLO
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But...since Bill Gates just recently announced that Vista may be getting phased out as early as next year...I have NO plans to even try it out...
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#1931332 - 04/23/08 02:40 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Justus A. Picker
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...and what's the word on Vista these days? Still working like crap?
Is XP still more stable for audio applications? I am NOT familiar w/ Vista at all--this machine is almost 7 yrs old (LOL!) so I work on XP.
I thought, w/ Sonar been out in 64-bit for like a year or so, most other audio applications would soon join in. Any word on actual practical differences of 64-bit? Noticed any more multi-tasking capacity, speed? Just curious.
A friend of mine is running Sonar 64 bit with Vista-64 on a quad-core with 8 gigs of RAM. He says it smokes, and is unbelievably stable, he can't crash it. Not all plug-ins are 64-bit compatible though.
I'm running Sonar 7 (32-bit) on a single-core Vista system with 2 gigs of RAM without any problems whatsoever. The biggest project has been 24-tracks with multiple plug-ins. No crashes, no pops/clicks or other annoyances.
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#1931486 - 04/23/08 09:32 PM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: Justus A. Picker]
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MILLO
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Justus, thanks for letting me know. Still, if it's gonna die, I'd rather get XP then see if "Win 7" is any good.
The only thing that has me even considering getting a Mac is the Microsoft OS issue... I mean, are XP and Vista survive the next 2 years? Apparently the whole Vista factor has been answered. Don't know if it should be a concern. Still, I have been known to crash Macs (it seems those weren't particularly wonderful years for Macs, though).
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#1931526 - 04/24/08 01:26 AM
Re: Affordable PC's: are Acer, Systemax reliable brands?
[Re: MILLO]
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Justus A. Picker
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Justus, thanks for letting me know. Still, if it's gonna die, I'd rather get XP then see if "Win 7" is any good.
The only thing that has me even considering getting a Mac is the Microsoft OS issue... I mean, are XP and Vista survive the next 2 years? Apparently the whole Vista factor has been answered. Don't know if it should be a concern. Still, I have been known to crash Macs (it seems those weren't particularly wonderful years for Macs, though).
They'll both survive the next two years. What level of support they'll receive is another question, but a moot one, imo. If it's stable who really cares if further updates are available.
It looks as though Windows 7 is going to be in support of the Microsoft Surface touchscreen thingy. That should be great fun when mixing!
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