#1930074 - 04/21/08 09:32 AM
Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
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Gismo Recording
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Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 506
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
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If I were to spend $1000 US upgrading my studio, what should I buy that will make the greatest improvement? My current setup consists of:
Alesis HD24 recorder
Mackie VLZ 24 channel mixer
Microphones: Rode NT1A, 2 Samson CO3's, Samson 8Kit 8 piece drum mic set, Shure Beta 87A, Shure SM87, 2 Shure SM58's, Shure SM57
Preamps: Using the ones built into the Mackie mixer
Compressor: Alesis 3630
EQ: Alesis MEQ something (don't remember the model number)
FX: Alesis Microverb, DigiTech something
AD/DA: Edirol UA-25
Monitors: KRK Rockit 5's
Pretty low budget to be sure but I do get some good recordings.
I'm thinking maybe one of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BlueTubeDP/
one of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/166XL/
and one of these: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C3Mic/
but I'd like to get some input from the folks here
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#1930150 - 04/21/08 11:32 AM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: Gismo Recording]
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MusicWorkz
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 1686
Loc: Philadelphia,PA,UNITED STATES
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Good question. Everyone has a different philosophy. If you are recording more live than direct, some say good mic and pres first (and rightfully so).
But if you are converting good signals with mediocre converters, the results may not be as good as you expect. Given that the Mackie's have solid pre's and great recordings have been made with the Shure's, I think you are ok in that department-for you to really move up, you'd have to have a bit more resources. If you are using a DAW, you also have the basics for processing at yout fingertips, too.
That is why I'd invest in a better AD/DA (MOTU M-Audio and a few others have good gear in the sub-$1,000 range). You have flexibility in capturing your sound at a better quality, be it live or tracked directly. And if you buy smart, you might be able to find some other piece of gear with what is left over.
_________________________
Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330, R-8). Novation (A & V-Stations, Remote LE), Akai MPC 2000XL Studio http://www.myspace.com/ieg_musicworkz
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#1930201 - 04/21/08 01:15 PM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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miroslav
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A couple of high-end mics...one high-end preamp....
Yes...a better AD/DA is also a good choice...but, you might just reveal more of the shortcomings of your current mics/pres.
So I would always start at the beginning of the signal chain.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1930340 - 04/21/08 05:23 PM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: miroslav]
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MusicWorkz
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So I would always start at the beginning of the signal chain.
If ALL he may be doing recording thru microphones, then generally speaking, I would agree. You want the best up front you can afford. But i think the choices project studios have to make tend to be a bit more practical considering bang for the buck. The Rode mic is a solid performer and we know the Shure's are studio workhorses. He can get by with that for the moment.
So if he is going to be recording other things directly as well, a nice multiple input interface (esp. some like the new MOTU 828 mkIII) gives some serious bank for the buck that helps his sound whether its mic'd or direct. He could mic a full drum kit, or do keys and guitars at the same time. Coupled with the Mackie, he can get some good stuff INTO the PC, made better by a better quality AD/DA converter.
For now. WIth that done, I'd go straight for mics next.
_________________________
Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330, R-8). Novation (A & V-Stations, Remote LE), Akai MPC 2000XL Studio http://www.myspace.com/ieg_musicworkz
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#1930406 - 04/21/08 07:57 PM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: MusicWorkz]
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audiofreek
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Loc: Prince George,,CANADA
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I would look at monitoring, and room treatment.Those Rokit 5s' only go down to 53hz,the KRK 10 inch active sub that matches them is about $300.00 ,amd then use the rest to tune your room so you can actually hear the differences in the sound of future gear purchases.
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#1930478 - 04/22/08 01:13 AM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: audiofreek]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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The whle works is low budget, but not terrible. My first recommendation is usually the monitors, because when the monitors tell the truth, future system changes will be accurately heard.
But those Alesis compressors are dogs. And low budget effects are grungy, noisy, and collapse the sound field. It can be a style, but would not be my choice in a system.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1930552 - 04/22/08 05:58 AM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Gismo Recording
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Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
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Thanks for the input everyone. Bill, I gotta agree about the Alesis compressor. That's one of the first things that must be replaced. I'm considering the Alto CLE8. I frequently want to compress multiple individual tracks and only having a two channel compressor means compressing two tracks while copying them to other tracks, etc. The effects are not so great either but I hardly use them at all so that may not be a major deal.
MusicWorkz I think the MOTU 828 mk3 may be overkill. I record on the HD 24 and mix in analog. The AD/DA is only used as the last step to get the final mix into the computer so I can burn a CD. Unless you were suggesting using the MOTU to replace the AD converters built into the HD24. Also unless I want to replace my computer, I need an AD/DA with a USB interface instead of Firewire.
Miroslav, I think the mics and pres are definitely in need of upgrade.
Here's what I'm thinking now.
Alto CLE8 compressor, Studio Projects C3 mic, and PreSonus Blue Tube preamp. I can get all these from Sweetwater for a total of $980. I'll look and see if any of these are available on ebay first.
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#1930558 - 04/22/08 06:18 AM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: Gismo Recording]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Ken,
My advice is that you make larger incremental steps, but only make one at a time, to keep the dollar figure about the same.
I also suggest that you make a plan, so that you are not just pissing money away on the new toy du jure.
Monitors should be high on your list. I'm sure that there are newer, bettter choices, but when I was looking at low budget monitors many years ago, the -least- acceptable answer for my ears was the mackie HR-824. A pair ran around $1500. I suggest that you start there.
The sweet spot in mic pres starts at about $1800 for 2 channels.
The sweet spot in mics starts at about $1200.
The sweet spot in compressors? I'm not sure anymore. The RNC used to get rave reviews.
But back to the plan idea..... where do you want to end up? What gear gets you there? First, in order to KNOW that you make good recordings and mixes, you need monitors that tell the truth, in a room that is properly treated. (Go to Ethan's sites and read, read read, so that you can save save save.)
The Mackie mixer is okay, if you don't lean on the tone controls and so long as you follow proper gain structure as described in most Mackie manuals. That is probably one of the last pieces you need to change, and no low budget preamp is going to make much of a difference.
Looking at your rig, I'd probably change the recorder and console last. I'd first get the monitor/room squared away, then definitely dump the effects ASAP.
Here is the thing.... I got away from hardware recorders a long time ago, and a big part of that was to get away from the noise and signal quality loss induced by various outboard pieces of gear. I knew that I would never be putting $5,000 pres or effects in my room, so I opted for the software route instead. A few hundred bucks buys a lot of software effects. But you have to have a multitrack sound card to handle the input.
Short term? Monitors. Longer term? Think about moving to an in the box solution. If you choose to stay in a world with multiple analog/digital/analog conversions, you'll probably never be happy with the sound. (Remember, going through the analog inputs and outputs of a low budget digital delay sends you through really cheap converters. This can't be good for the sound.)
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1930569 - 04/22/08 06:32 AM
Re: Where can I get the most bang for the buck?
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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MusicWorkz
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Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 1686
Loc: Philadelphia,PA,UNITED STATES
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R.I.F. Reading is Fundamental. I missed the HD24 line for some reason and focused on your Edirol soundcard. The MOTU was a suggestion, but there are lots of decent USB interfaces available, too.
I typically take my mixes to a commercial facility when I get to that point, so my focus is always getting good, clean signals in. Understanding a bit more about your process, though, I'd agree with Audio and Bill and look at monitor/room treatments. Having a more accurate representation of the sound you are mixing is invaluable.
_________________________
Yamaha (Motif XS7, Motif 6, TX81Z), Korg (R3, Triton-R), Roland (XP-30, D-50, Juno 6, P-330, R-8). Novation (A & V-Stations, Remote LE), Akai MPC 2000XL Studio http://www.myspace.com/ieg_musicworkz
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