#1927611 - 04/15/08 12:14 PM
Live recording questions
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cassius
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Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Springfield, MO
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Hey all. I am hopping over from the Bass Player forums to ask a very broad question...
How does one set up a cheap, decent, reliable live recording rig for the traveling band?
I ask because my band, an edgy blues trio of sorts, has been recorded live a few times by my friends and I have really liked the results. I would like to compile a large database of recordings so that I could put together a well done live album.
Right now, I have an Apple laptop equipped only with GarageBand (no multi-track recording, I am told), but am going to get Logic Express soon. We in the band also have a mixer and two PA speakers, as well as one vocal mic for the lead singer. So, not much, but a start.
Could you all help me just by explaining the best way to go about the process, and compiling a list of "essentials"? How many tracks should I run? Any more than 8? What mics are good for drums? Should bass go direct into the mix? Etc...
Thank you all. You can go to my myspace page (listed in the signature) to get an idea of what my music sounds like if that matters. Most of the tracks on that page are live recordings already (the aforementioned ones my friends have recorded).
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#1927617 - 04/15/08 12:35 PM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: cassius]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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How does one set up a cheap, decent, reliable live recording rig for the traveling band?
I would like to compile a large database of recordings so that I could put together a well done live album.
The key to your question is 'well done'. If you want a well done recording, you get a guy who knows how to record to do it for you. Trust me on this, you don't want to split your focus when playing, or the playing will suffer. You don't want to own the gear, your bank account will suffer. You don't want to learn how to do this, your patience will suffer. You don't build your own cabinets or mics, you don't build your truck or lights, but for whatever reason, everyone thinks that they are going to be instant recording engineers.
Recording reference tracks from which you can decide what songs to record is easy, and a great idea. But to compile album-quality tracks takes some gear and some recording knowlege.
By the way, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting seven or eight 'recording studios', so why not strike up a deal with one fo them? I am sure that there are blues fans with decent setups who would do this sort of thing for free, just to be associated with the band.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1927623 - 04/15/08 12:45 PM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: cassius]
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Gismo Recording
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Registered: 12/20/06
Posts: 532
Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
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As far as tracks. You need one track for every vocalist, one track for bass and one track for each guitar. Keyboards require two tracks and drums require at least 4. That is unless they're electronic drums in which case they only require two.
If you're going to capture the recordings on a computer you'll need a mixer with a digital output.
Or do like me and use an analog mixer and a standalone recorder with analog inputs.
As far as bass direct or miced I guess it's a matter of taste. The ideal thing is to use both which of course requires another track.
As far as drum mics, there are a number of not-very-expensive ones. I like Samsons.
Keep us posted and let us hear the recordings when you make them.
_________________________
Ken Denny It's drunk in the morning and I am 2AM - Slingshot Cash Gismo Recording myspace
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#1927679 - 04/15/08 02:09 PM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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cassius
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Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Springfield, MO
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[quote=cassius]You don't build your own cabinets or mics, you don't build your truck or lights, but for whatever reason, everyone thinks that they are going to be instant recording engineers.
I don't think I ever made that claim. I just had the idea that it would good for us to use a low-budget recording setup to capture lots of live shows and compile a "best of", which we could sell. Among our "fans" we are generally thought of as a live band.
I suppose I could get our friend to record us, but the deal is, is I want a large library to pull from; and Steve (friend) is really busy. It was impossible to get him to do one show, even though he himself was highly committed.
Thanks for your advice.
Gismo, thanks for the advice per tracking. The four drum mics are two overheads, kick, and snare, I assume?
If I do get this project off the ground, ever, I will definitely share results with all of you.
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#1927759 - 04/15/08 04:21 PM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: cassius]
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Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9998
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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I concur with Gismo on the recording options, but more importantly I agree with Bill on the "releasing a live album" aspect - you'll be hard-pressed, having never done a live recording before, to accomplish such a daunting task as tracking live performances with sufficient quality as to be able to make the final product anything more listenable than a basic DIY band demo.
I know he laid it on pretty strong there (tact, Bill, tact!) but the message is still accurate - it takes a lot of time, skill, and money to effectively learn how to record a live performance, and it takes just as much of all three to actually go out and do it - and doing from the stage while you're playing in the band is damned near asking the impossible.
_________________________
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#1927771 - 04/15/08 04:49 PM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: cassius]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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[quote=cassius....I want a large library to pull from; ...
[/quote]
I understand. But the ability to get it all, and get it all every night and get it all and have it sound consistent requires a lot of gear and a bit of knowlege and experience.
When Rusted Root made their last live album, they tracked EVERY channel from the console to RADAR, for every show on the tour, and the engineer had to assemble the best possible recordings, using the best parts, regardless of which show it might be from. This is really rough to do.... if you can imagine listening to 65 versions (or how ever many shows were on the tour)of each of your songs, just the time to listen to them all is prohibitive, let alone to start to compare them to each other to try to pick the best part from each player to comp together into a mix. (I know that you did not ask for this capability, but it is the logical next step.)
Anyway, if you do try to capture your live sound, you'll need a mic for each instrument and some audience mics (more than just one, or you'll end up with that one guy shouting on all the tracks...somehow he always knows and sits near the mic...), and some kind of drum array. I like three or four drum mics (big ambient Zeppelin sound), but somethimes in a live show you need more placed closer because of bleed, particularly if you plan to comp any parts together. Personally, I like to split the mics between the house consle and the recording rig... that way, the recording is not affected by FOH changes, and the reverse is also true.
The more tracks, the better. Behringer makes the ADA8000, which has 8 channels of input and output for about $230. Couple two or three of these with an RME Digiface, or one with a Multiface, and you've got a reasonably priced multitrack setup. I understand that the Terratec line is reasonably affordable, but I have never used them. There are many softwares capable of doing what you want, from free to many thousands of dollars.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1927922 - 04/16/08 06:17 AM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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cassius
Gold Member
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 562
Loc: Springfield, MO
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If I thought I could get someone to do it for me, I would. Even pay. But I understand that you are all just telling me like it is... so thanks!
The tracks on our Myspace were done using a bass direct, two overheads, and a vocal mic, into a mixer. Very minimal. I thought they turned out reasonably well. Not Amazon.com quality, but still tracks I feel really proud of for the most part. I guess that was why I got it into my head it wouldn't be INCREDIBLY hard to do by, for instance. However I'm sure the circumstances were unordinary with Steve's recordings, and I do realize that these recordings are far from perfect.
I'm going to sift through what you all have said and mull it over. Thank you.
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#1931070 - 04/23/08 06:58 AM
Re: Live recording questions
[Re: cassius]
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audiorulez
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Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 548
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I agree with the points made about DIY, you have no recording experience, and little to no knowledge of how to go about it. Yes you can learn while you record, but many potentially great shows will be lost forever.
The swinging dead cat theory is so dead on (no pun intended). Find a local guy through other bands who has a good reputation, decent gear, and enough I/O to accommodate your band, IMO at least 16. Don't forgo room mics, these are ultra important for live recording, not only to capture the audience but the room sound overall.
Good mics are crutial. Cheap mics sound cheap, and you can't polish a turd. Same with mic pres.
Take your time, shop around and do it right the first time. If you have a good fan base it can easily pay for itself or even turn a profit.
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