#1924525 - 04/09/08 01:07 PM
Mixing Down To A Stand-Alone Digital Device & Other Options
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zubon
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Orlando, FL
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A bit of background: in the late 90's, I mixed my recordings down to a Panasonic SV-3700 DAT machine. I sort of fell in love with the sound I perceived I was getting from this machine, and it seemed to add some subtle and nice compression when the incoming signal slightly touched red on the unit's meter. In the 21st century I ditched the DAT and decided to start mixing down into Sound Forge on a PC. After a few years of this and some frustration with the final sound, I decided to move back to the Panasonic DAT machine I loved. Having sold my previous one, I tracked down a used one and started getting mixdowns that I was sonically satisfied with once again.
Now this second Panasonic seems to have bitten the dust. I could look for another Panasonic machine but I'm worried that I'll probably just find myself in a loop of constantly buying replacements unless I actually run across a brand new one. It would also be nice to have 24-bit capability (which the SV-3700 doesn't offer).
So, I'm looking for alternate suggestions for stand-alone recording options that might make me happy. The Alesis Masterlink has been suggested to me, as has the Korg MR1000 , but I'm not sure if those units will really have the advantage sound-wise that I perceived with the Panasonic vs. mixing down into the PC.
At the risk of sounding a bit ignorant amongst the much wiser audio gurus inhabiting the forum I'll try to explain what I am looking for in 'sound'. I suppose I'm rather generically looking for that 'warmth' or 'analog-style richness' that we all seem to be after. I mainly do electronic music with some live instruments, and I think keeping my overall sound a bit organic rather than too sharp or 'digital' sounding sets me apart. I also was not happy that, when mixing into the computer, even though I was getting good level (at the edge of red) in the meter on the PC the final mix just sounded lower in volume and a bit lifeless next to a similar mixdown on the DAT machine. This isn't about volume wars or whatever ... the PC mixdowns just were duller.
I mix through an analog board (a Mackie 32-8) and use outboard gear + effects in addition to the computer ones, so that helps a bit. But mixing into the computer just seemed to anesthetize it all.
Though I'm leaning towards a stand alone recorder I'd be fine with mixing in the computer if I can get the results I want. Perhaps there is an outboard processing or sound card solution. I was mixing down into Sound Forge on the PC, straight from the Mackie, via a M-Audio Delta 66 sound card. I also have a Mac G5 which I use for sequencing and tracking (Logic 8), going through a MOTU 2408 and a Behringer Ultragain Pro-8, though I'd like to avoid mixing down in the same computer that I'm sequencing/tracking from.
Lastly, I'm a bit underfunded at the moment so inexpensive options are always best. But if there's a fantastic solution that would make me happy and satisfy me for the next several years then I'll pull out the credit card and take the risk (but would still like to keep this south of US$2000).
I look forward to your insights. Thank you in advance.
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#1924824 - 04/10/08 06:19 AM
Re: Mixing Down To A Stand-Alone Digital Device & Other Options
[Re: zubon]
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paully
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Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 1079
Loc: Northern New Jersey
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Hi Zubon, and welcome aboard. As far as a stand-alone unit goes, virtually all the studios hilighted in the back of EQ still have a Masterlink installed. I've had one for a lot of years, and it'll do it's thing without problems. If money's an issue, get a functioning unit on Ebay, then swap out the drive to the newest compatable unit and install the newest drivers. Alesis is good at providing the info. You'll have a great piece of gear. Here's the last communication I had with them concerning Masterlink drives:
There are only certain cd drives that are supported by the Masterlink's software. A list of supported cd drives can be found at http://alesis.com/downloads/software/ml9600/ML_History.pdf .Also you would need an eprom chip version of 1.27 in the Masterlink for the new Lite-on drives to be used as well as the latest software version which can be downloaded at http://www.alesis.com/index.php?id=58,39,0,0,1,0. Our Parts Dept. would have the eprom chip at the number below.
Best Regards, Justin Baro Alesis Technical Support
IMHO, warmth and digital in the same breath is a nonsequitur, but it's where we've arrived as an industry. I certainly don't have an answer to that one. You could go all analog, but it still ends up as a 16 bit piece of plastic.
EDIT: WOW, that is an old communication. The links don't work anymore! Oh well... Here's where to apply for the current updates http://alesis.com/contentmgr/showdetails.php/id/1646 .
Best, Paul
Edited by paully (04/10/08 06:31 AM)
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WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
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#1924846 - 04/10/08 06:54 AM
Re: Mixing Down To A Stand-Alone Digital Device & Other Options
[Re: paully]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7419
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What you are liking is the sound of the front end converters of the Panasonic. It has nothing to do with the storage medium.
To take the opposite view of Paul (who is a knowlegable fellow...) I rented a Masterlink and I hated it, found it to be a total PITA and time waster for many tasks, when compared to the simplicity of working in the computer. I also tracked a lot of bitching and moaning from fellows on the mastering webboard who bought intot he Masterlink early and whom mostly seem to have either regretted it or learned to live with it.
Since what you are really looking for is a nice set of converters to give you a tasty sound on the front end, I suggest that you audition the Links line of audio cards. This is not what I use, so I'm not trying to bang any particular drum here. Personally I use RME cards with Mytek converters. But the Lynx cards with the Lynx converters are spoken of fondly by many mastering and mix engineers.
Like you, I loved my 3700, but I gave it up a long long time ago. At that time I was working with nmostly Panasonic consoles, but we eventually had a Mackie 32*8 for a brief period. Not the best sounding board on the planet, but you can learn to get a workable mix from it if you try.
There are also wonderful medium to low budget 2 channel converters from Mytek, Larvy, and Benchmark. In my opinion, the first two are just an incredible sound for the cost, while the latter is only the smallest hair behind.
Aldo, in terms of cleaning up and opening up the sound, I suggest looking at a better console or other front end. Personally again, I dumped the analog stuff (80 rack spaces of 1176s, 160X, and other vintage analog gear) and the console, in favor of mixing in the box with better quality software, thereby losing all the electronic noises inherent in old analog gear and the loss of the width and sparkle of the soundstage. I moved to Sequoia, a handful of plugs, Mytek DACs, a custom built calibrated stepped attenuator, and Cello/Dunlavy playback. Definitely an eye-opener. Oh, don't forget a trip to Ethans boad above and re-examine your mixdown room in light of the information available there.
Regards,
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1924862 - 04/10/08 07:13 AM
Re: Mixing Down To A Stand-Alone Digital Device & Other Opti
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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zubon
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 2
Loc: Orlando, FL
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right on, great stuff. thanks to the both of you for the suggestions and ideas ...
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#1925134 - 04/10/08 02:47 PM
Re: Mixing Down To A Stand-Alone Digital Device & Other Options
[Re: paully]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7419
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I know what you mean... last year I had to go to my old studio and borow a Tascam DA-30 for a project, and recently I bought a DA-88 with the SY-88 card for another project.... thought that those days were gone forever.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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