#1923815 - 04/08/08 09:30 AM
In desperate need of help
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battlefrost
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Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: San Diego, California, USA
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Greetings,
I spent over $1,000 on 705 and 703. We put up bass traps around the room. I removed the carpet as well.
Recording drumsets seems to have improved, as well as guitar and bass.
But...
I set up my mixing station out in the live recording room (the room where I applied the bass traps and removed carpet) and played back raw tracks to start mixing. Things sounded weird, just strange somehow. So I performed the "Response" test from the Real Traps site.
I played back the sine wave tones and recorded them back in to Sonar with a omni patern small diaphram condensor mic. Well I have some huge peaks and some huge nulls.
I am not at the studio right now so I don't have the exact specs on that, but I will be leaving shortly to go there.
Well, I decided to mix anyway for a test to see how it would translate. When I got to my car to drive home, the mix was way too bass heavy. I remember my response test had a large null all the way up to about 80Hz.
I am desperate and a bit depressed. I worked so hard and spent so much. What am I doing wrong? What can I do? Is there any hope?
My room is roughly 19 by 11. My floors currently are bare concrete (I am in converted garage.) The wall to my left has 2 2X4 705 panels 4 inches thick at the wall ceiling corners. It also has 3 2X4 703 panels 4 inches thick just on the walls (no corners) with a 4 inch air gap.
On the wall to my right there is no treatment yet. The walls themselves are not wood or anything, they are that acoustic board stuff from Home Depot. Crappy stuff.
I will try and show pictures later today.
Any help for my desperate operation is so very appreciated.
Thank you,
-Charles
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Musicians recording musicians.
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#1923825 - 04/08/08 09:42 AM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: battlefrost]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5470
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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Something doesn't add up here. You say you spent $1,000 on rigid fiberglass, but you listed only five panels. Say what?
Can you post a few photos?
--Ethan
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#1923868 - 04/08/08 10:38 AM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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battlefrost
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Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: San Diego, California, USA
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Hi Ethan,
Not all of the panels have been completed yet. I actually spent about $800 on rigid fiberglass and burlap fabric, and with all the shipping charges it added up to $1000. Plus the wood for the frames and stuff.
But anyway, you are right, a good portion of the 703 and 705 is still in it shipping boxes because we have not set them up yet. But, we do have a lot that is completed. I figured enough has been done to give a good enough environment for some quick mixes. But on my response test I am shocked at the differences I am seeing.
Can I post pictures without hosting them on another site?
Thanks,
-Charles
_________________________
Musicians recording musicians.
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#1923871 - 04/08/08 10:46 AM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: battlefrost]
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battlefrost
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Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: San Diego, California, USA
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I forgot to mention that I have 3 2X4 panels of 4 inch thick 703 right in front of where I sit to mix. So there are a total of 8 panels that are set up.
I also should mention that in the past, I mixed in the little closet-like alcove off to one side of the room. The wall behind my head was about 8 inches away. I figured this was a pretty bad situation and my response test confirmed it.
So I only sit in there to track people. Then I move my gear out into the bigger live room to mix, or at least that was my plan.
Is this the way to go? But anyway, things sound drastically different with a different frequency response and I am still nowhere near flat enough for a decent mix.
I am getting pretty worried because I have clients and deadlines and my mixes are crappy. I spent money where I thought the most good would come from it, the room itself.
Thanks for any help. I can post pictures in a couple hours if I don't need to host on another site.
-Charles
Edited by battlefrost (04/08/08 10:50 AM)
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#1923998 - 04/08/08 02:25 PM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: battlefrost]
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battlefrost
Member
Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 5
Loc: San Diego, California, USA
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Ok, I messed up earlier. The room is roughly 19X16. There are 9 panels currently installed. 6 703's and 3 705's. All are 2X4 and 4 inches thick.
I was able to make a short video showing the room and my setup. it is Here
Again, the main problem is I have huge peaks and nulls as shown by the response test and my mixes sound as though they have a big lack of bass. I mix to compensate and there is too much bass everywhere else. But the overall response is not very flat. I need help. Any ideas?
Thanks,
-Charles
Edited by battlefrost (04/08/08 02:35 PM)
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#1924164 - 04/08/08 07:57 PM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: battlefrost]
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Speaker Boy
Senior Member
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 71
Loc: Santa Barbara, California
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I watched your video and have several questions/observations.
How high is your roof? What treatment are you using on the roof?
Are you mixing at the 38% point of your room?
Is so...Did you calculate your 38% point from the back cubby-hole wall?
Which speakers did you use for you measurements(the huge ones or the tiny ones)?
You don't have very much treatment in your corners.
Fiberglass panels are broadband absorbers when placed on a wall. They have to be in corners to effectively work as bass absorbers. See data here http://www.realtraps.com/data.htm
Remember you have twelve corners in a typical room. Actually you have more than twelve to choose from because of that little cubby-hole.
In order to absorb 52 hz you really need a lot of thick panels placed in as many corners as possible. BTW my guess is your room is actually 22x15x11.
Jeff
Edited by speaker_boy (04/08/08 08:02 PM)
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#1924369 - 04/09/08 09:05 AM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: Speaker Boy]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5470
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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I saw your video (nice job) and agree with Jeff's comments, especially about not yet having enough corner bass trapping. The worst problems are in the front-to-back direction, so having traps in those wall-wall and wall-ceiling and even wall-floor corners will help the most. Your opening in the rear wall is a good thing. You just need more bass traps. A few flat on the rear wall will help further.
Finally, don't be discouraged by peaks and nulls. As it is now they're pretty bad, but I'm sure you'll make that better. If you can get the span from peak to null within 10 dB you'll be doing very well.
--Ethan
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#1924495 - 04/09/08 12:48 PM
Re: In desperate need of help
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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noxinnixon
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Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 1
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For clarification...the main room is 16x19, with the 6x8 "cubby hole" side room. The ceiling is 8.5 and is sheetrock and sound board covered with moving pads. The ceiling above is empty to a typical garage style peak. The west wall is connected to the house with a 3 foot running closet area, and the north and east walls are stucco with sheetrock and sound board. The south wall is false, with the 4inch internal space filled with gravel for weight and density - this conceals the metal garage door that is needed for access to the room, it is OSB covered with soundboard. The small speakers are used for mixing, etc. The large bass cabs are for live sound only. We discussed Ethan's response and have elected to treat the west wall and cubby hole next... thanks again for your quick responses and help!
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