#1920789 - 04/02/08 01:30 PM
About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
|
hip
Member
Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 29
Loc: Finland
|
Offline
|
|
I got into studio technology when the shift to software had already happened. The analog world is quite strange to me and probably it has now led me thinking wrong. Correct me. My problem:
I have a laptop Mac running Logic with M-Audio Ozonic as audio interface. Now I'd like to upgrade my system so that I'd be able to use hardware effects. I don't need more inputs then Ozonic has (4) and even 2 outputs would be enough (Ozonic has 4), but I'd like to be able to apply for instance reverb on chosen tracks - as send or insert effect - and have the wet signal back in Logic's mixer. Or drive one track through external distortion and record it processed. It seems to me only way to achieve this is to switch laptop to desktop and buy expensive Pro Tools or Yamaha digital mixer/Steinberg DAW system. I can get even 10 ins and outs with the same amount of preamps on my laptop with firewire interface but not a device that is capable providing me only the luxury of using outboard fx!
Now, what I am thinking wrong here?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#1921111 - 04/03/08 05:47 AM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: hip]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9878
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
There's absolutely nothing to be gained, given your rig, in using outboard analog hardware effects. The only HW worth going out of the box for is in the 4 figures and up ranges, and you don't have the kind of top-shelf converters to prevent the complete loss of fidelity in the process of going D-to-A-to-D-to-A over and over again.
Hopefully Miro will chime in here on his methods - he does his tracking and editing in the DAW, then goes analog for his final mixdown, so there's only one extra net conversion between tracking and final mix. That's a much more intelligent way to do the outboard FX.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921235 - 04/03/08 09:39 AM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: hip]
|
paully
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 1062
Loc: Northern New Jersey
|
|
Offline
|
|
Because I don't have a really good reverb(comparable to my hardware units) in my Mac/Logic setup, I'll take anything that needs reverb and assign it to a seperate stereo or mono buss(depending on the reverb input that I'm using), then route that out of the computer via analog out(s) to a hardverb. Then I bring the wet signal only back into the computer as a 'reverb only' stereo track. I's an old analog trick, but it still works. Should also work with your other apps. Otherwise, like Miro I prefer to mix in the analog world.
Best, Paul
_________________________
WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921415 - 04/03/08 02:16 PM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: paully]
|
hip
Member
Registered: 02/17/03
Posts: 29
Loc: Finland
|
|
Offline
|
|
I completely bought what Griffinator said since there isn't suitable system for my needs in market and paullys's way seems a bit marginal. Nevertheless, it might be an answer for my problem. While chaining crappy guitar pedals after output and recording the outcome again may sound catastrophical fidelity-wise, it gives me certain advantages I don't have in soft world. So, paully, are you suggesting that I route the desired Logic bus to outputs 3+4 (out of 4) and then after pedals back again to inputs (1+2)? Can't I break my interface or monitors like this? If processed signal is even close to "clean", won't this end up to feedback hell?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921455 - 04/03/08 03:28 PM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: hip]
|
paully
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 1062
Loc: Northern New Jersey
|
|
Offline
|
|
So, paully, are you suggesting that I route the desired Logic bus to outputs 3+4 (out of 4) and then after pedals back again to inputs (1+2)? Can't I break my interface or monitors like this? If processed signal is even close to "clean", won't this end up to feedback hell?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Marginal  . Isn't that a butter substitute?
If all you want to do is add outboard effects to a guitar track, assign a feed from that track(usually an aux. send that you add on) to a mono bus that you create. Turn the track's main fader level off, so you're only feeding the guitar track's aux. to the bus.
Patch the bus to output 3(assuming 3 is currently unused and you're monitoring your mix on 1 and 2) and pan the bus hard to output 3 if it's a stereo bus.
Run out 3 into your effects, and then run them back into the interface and record into a new track, using 1 of the interface's 2 available inputs(your choice). I'm guessing you should use a line input, but depending on the signal you might opt for mic/inst.
Set the new track to record and start the song playing. You can monitor what's being recorded the same way you monitor everything else. You'll end up with an original track and a processed track.
I don't really see how you can damage anything or create feedback loops as long as the original track is turned down at the channel fader. The only possible problem might be latency, as the processed signal is gonna take time to do it's thing. New track time alignment is adjustable later.
You'll have to play with gains to get the right signal out of the computer and also getting it back in. Have fun!
paul
_________________________
WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921554 - 04/03/08 07:48 PM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: hip]
|
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7341
|
|
Offline
|
|
Now, what I am thinking wrong here?
That you need outboard effects?
We all have our paradigms to work within. What outboard effects do you feel will give you a better sound than the available software effects?
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921658 - 04/04/08 05:24 AM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and
[Re: hip]
|
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7341
|
|
Offline
|
|
Werll, there ate tens if not hundreds of multi-I/O audio devices available, and any one of them can do what you ask. Some, like the Fireface or the Tascam US models, have instrument level inputs.
If you -have- to use outboard effects (and there are plenty of free crappy guitar pedal VSTi applications available on the net, as well as some darned good ones...)then it would very simply be handled just as if you were doing it in an analog world.... assign the output of a channel to feed the outboard effect, assign a channel to recieve the effected audio and record it to another track. That would be the easiest way to do it.
As Griff says, the results are questionable. But there is nothing "wrong" with doing it, in terms of breaking anything. Once you get a little more experience, you are liable to find that the sound quality suffers from such manipilation.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1921750 - 04/04/08 08:14 AM
Re: About ADAT, firewire/USB interfaces, digital mixers and such
[Re: hip]
|
paully
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 1062
Loc: Northern New Jersey
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hip,
I didn't dig really deep into the setup, but I'm pretty sure that the Aux. Send that you insert can be set up as pre-fader, meaning that it's signal is not dependant on the master fader.
AAR, there's an easier way to route the signal. Forget the whole aux. send and bus method.
On the original track, temporarily re-assign the main output to 3-4(it won't appear at the monitor: outputs 1-2), then pan hard to output 3. The original track's fader becomes the level control for output 3. Make sure the original track is NOT in the REC mode, but IS in the playback mode.
Connect output 3 the your effects. The return patching from the effects in my original outline remains the same.
After you get your new track recorded, don't forget to change the original track's output back to output 1-2 in case you want to use it. The new track should also be assigned to output 1-2. Good luck with the project.
Best, Paul
_________________________
WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: FoxTick, Bunny Knutson
|
|
|
Was trying to say that your way is somewhat rare.
