#1916072 - 03/25/08 02:00 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
fantasticsound
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/07/01
Posts: 16232
Loc: Madison,TN, UNITED STATES
|
Offline
|
|
Yep! Epi hardware almost invariably has smaller mounting holes than the Gibson counterparts (as well as any Gibson style replacement parts).
Can't say I know the diameter you should cut though. Call 1-800-4GIBSON and one of the guys should be able to assist you.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916083 - 03/25/08 02:17 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: fantasticsound]
|
GeoffB
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 6854
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
|
|
Offline
|
|
Probably the best way is to use a reamer.
I believe you can get them initially tapered then cylindrical - there was a thread about this recently which probably covers it:
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads...rue#Post1874973
G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace"
Jimi Hendrix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916331 - 03/26/08 04:32 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: GeoffB]
|
Xplorer
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Belleville, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
I agree with GeoffB, use a reamer. Don't use a hand held drill or you will be sorry! LOL. I performed the same operation about 2 weeks ago. I used a reamer and it took about 2 min to get all the holes to the proper diameter. Just get the first hole reamed until the machine head slides in, put some tape on the reamer to mark the reamer depth/diameter, and do the rest.
I've seen jobs done with hand held electric drills. If you're lucky all you will get is chipped finish. If you are unlucky you will get chipped wood! The only way I can think of to do it with a drill safley is to fixture and clamp the headstock flat and then use a drill press. To get the headstock flat you will need to have the body and neck fixtured at an angle that would make me nervous.
(also, I agree with GeoffB rhymes)
_________________________
What a horrible night to have a curse.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916342 - 03/26/08 05:34 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
LeftyBlues
Gold Member
Registered: 05/22/03
Posts: 748
Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio
|
|
Offline
|
|
Rob,
I just had a luthier install Sperzels in my Casino. If you really truly know what you're doing then go ahead, but the folks here convinced me very quickly that it isn't worth the risk of destroying a guitar to try it yourself. It only cost me around $50, money well spent.
L.B.
_________________________
"My other car is a Strat"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916367 - 03/26/08 06:31 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: LeftyBlues]
|
Robitaille59
Senior Member
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Dallas TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for the advice gentlemen.
I'm considering scraping this idea all together and saving this guitar for when my son is old enough to play.
I'm hesitant to use a drill bit after reading all of the comments on this thread and the other similar thread.
The reamer or a luthier may be too costly for this project as the guitar cost me $90 and I've allready spent $40 on the tuning keys.
I feel like I'm about to cut my own hair. You know? On one hand you save money but on the other hand you may have to run to the barber and get a crew cut and start all over again.
I'll probably change my mind 50 times today but I do really appreciate everyone who posted to this.
I've said it before but this is by far the best music forum on the web!
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916435 - 03/26/08 08:19 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
GeoffB
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 6854
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
|
|
Offline
|
|
So what's wrong with my crew cut?
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace"
Jimi Hendrix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916502 - 03/26/08 10:15 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: GeoffB]
|
Xplorer
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Belleville, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
Not that I endorse this type of behavior, but...
Buy the reamer, keep the recipt. That's all I have to say. Ahem.
Nudge-nudge...
Ahh... umm...
Ya, just return it to Walmart for a full refund! Who said that!
_________________________
What a horrible night to have a curse.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916507 - 03/26/08 10:30 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Xplorer]
|
GeoffB
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 6854
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
|
|
Offline
|
|
I picked up a suitable reamer off Ebay for about $15.00.
G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace"
Jimi Hendrix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916579 - 03/26/08 12:40 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: GeoffB]
|
Robitaille59
Senior Member
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Dallas TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
I guess it was that link on the other thread that made it look expensive.
It went to some machine shop that would make the reamer for you..looked pricey
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916919 - 03/27/08 06:13 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
Robitaille59
Senior Member
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Dallas TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
Okay let me first say that if I had a decent les paul I would have taken everyone's advice and not done this myself.
This guitar retails for $119 and I paid $99 for it soI went ahead with replacing the tuning keys myself.
Fortunatley for me it worked. I used a hand held drill and yes the wood did splinter a bit at the entry and exit points and yes it was impossible to drill at a right angle to the headstock so I had to redrill a few holes while overcompensating a bit in the correct angle making the hole a bit sloppy.
The only thing that went terribly wrong was I had to drill small holes in the back of the headstock for the screws that hold the tuning keys in place as the old holes didn't line up in the same spot and on one I actually drilled completely through the head stock! The hole in the front is very small and part of it is covered by the bezel that goes at the base of the tuning key so it's barely noticable but it would be unacceptable with a guitar of a higher quality.
If I had a job in a luthiers shop they probably would have fired me but I got the job done....
Thanks to everyone for their posts.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1916933 - 03/27/08 06:31 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: stamplicker]
|
fantasticsound
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/07/01
Posts: 16232
Loc: Madison,TN, UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Looks like he got reamed anyway, Geoff.  
Well... the upside is you learned your lesson on a $100 guitar, not a $500 or $1500 instrument.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917070 - 03/27/08 10:21 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: GeoffB]
|
Robitaille59
Senior Member
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Dallas TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
You should've used a reamer.....................  G.
Yep
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917132 - 03/27/08 11:53 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
Xplorer
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Belleville, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
I could see it all happening before you even did it! LOL.
Don't worry though, I won't ream you out for it!
_________________________
What a horrible night to have a curse.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917797 - 03/28/08 11:24 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Xplorer]
|
Robitaille59
Senior Member
Registered: 05/10/05
Posts: 238
Loc: Dallas TX
|
|
Offline
|
|
Okay tuning keys aside I think I ruined this guitar.
While I was working on it I didn't take off the neck because the action was perfect.
I do recall putting quite a bit of stress on the neck while I was drilling and I thought nothing of it.
When I was done and got it all back together (I installed a new bridge too which I didn't mention earlier because it wasn't relevant until now) the action was really high.
I lowered the new bridge and adjusted the truss rod to get the action down to a tolerable level (all though it's not as low as it was before all of this happened)
I let it sit for about 24 hours and when I picked it back up the action was really high again.
What does it mean when you adjust the truss rod and the adjustment doesn't stick?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917809 - 03/28/08 11:44 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Robitaille59]
|
Dr. Ellwood
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 15689
Loc: MoTown
|
|
Offline
|
|
You should NEVER adjust the truss rod in one step!! always turn it a little and let it rest for a hour aprox... then turn again, always looking at it with a good straight edge or steel ruler! It's like never tuning a piano in one step... don't do that!!!
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917815 - 03/28/08 11:54 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
|
GeoffB
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 6854
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
|
|
Offline
|
|
Sounds there might have been a little shim in there that you didn't notice when you took the neck off.
I'd do this:
1 Take the strings off.
2 Adjust the truss rod until the neck is pretty straight.
3 Unscrew the neck screws and check that the neck pocket is clean.
4 Cut a piece of 120 grit sandpaper to fit the width of the pocket and be 1 1/2 time the length.
5 Fold it over so that one end touches about 2/3 way along.
6 Place in pocket.
7 Replace neck tight.
8 Replace strings & bring to tension.
9 Leave for 24 hours.
10 Set up saddles & truss rod.
G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace"
Jimi Hendrix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917817 - 03/28/08 11:55 AM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: GeoffB]
|
Dr. Ellwood
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/07/02
Posts: 15689
Loc: MoTown
|
|
Offline
|
|
He didn't take the neck off Geoff.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917861 - 03/28/08 12:55 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
|
GeoffB
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 6854
Loc: UK East Midlands via Scotland
|
|
Offline
|
|
He didn't take the neck off Geoff.
Belay all of the above!!!
You're on your own, Pal!!!
G.
_________________________
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the World will know Peace"
Jimi Hendrix
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917877 - 03/28/08 01:21 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
|
Xplorer
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Belleville, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
Oh the humanity! The horror!
_________________________
What a horrible night to have a curse.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1917883 - 03/28/08 01:30 PM
Re: Installing New Tuning Keys in Epi Les Paul
[Re: Xplorer]
|
Xplorer
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/06
Posts: 1191
Loc: Belleville, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
I'll be that what happened is this...
When you took the strings off you lost all side-loading force on your bridge height screws. That makes them rotate with ease. You need to put your truss rod back to how it was and set your string height before making any neck adjustments. If your string height is properly set up and you still have issues with buzzing, dead frets etc, then you can determine if you should adjust your truss rod. I always take my guitars to a luthier that I trust to make that adjustment (yearly). Unfortuneatley, you probably don't remember where the truss rod neck was sitting. If you look up truss rod adjustment tutorials they will almost always tell you to:
#1 DO NOT ADJUST YOUR TRUSS ROD!
#2 If you can't help yourself, mark the truss rod nut with a marker so that you know where to return the nut to if you f-it-up.
_________________________
What a horrible night to have a curse.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: myles_rose, A String, Bluesape
|
|
|
Oooo.... stuck in AND broke off! 
