#1905572 - 03/08/08 02:04 AM
Self-Referential Rock
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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I've been getting into a band called Nada Surf recently. I saw them on some CNN thing, ages ago and liked them, and I've been playing their MySpace stuff quite a lot.
But the thing is, their music is lyrically, quite self-referential in terms of rock music. I mean, having a song that includes the lines
There's a feeling I get,
When I look to the West...
is kind of self-referential. Writing a song called "Blonde On Blonde" is kind of self-referential, too. And I sort of get the feeling (when I look to the West) that a bunch of guys in the prime of their lives should be doing something more interesting than listening to a bunch of old records.
But they're not the only ones (not even The Only Ones) One thing I liked about Death Cab For Cutie's "Transatlanticism" album, was that I could recognize lots of little things in their songs. In one, they had a piano that sounded a lot like the piano in Eno's "Music For Airports", and a drum part in another song that sounded like (again) Eno's "The Big Ship" from "Another Green World". All stuff that I love and feel someone should grab and run with.
And I like it, because it makes me feel that someone has seconded my tastes. If guys, esp. young guys are going to rip this stuff off, then it MUST be good... or so the reasoning goes. And really, it's all critics rock they're ripping off, they're not doing "Mustang Sally" or anything popular like that. So obviously, the music *must* be full of quiet good taste. Or so the reasoning goes.
But I wonder, too, if putting a bunch of references to what critics would consider "Essential Recordings" isn't just a cheap way to critical approval. Deep down, I feel that it's cheating, a bit like sucking up to a difficult teacher and parroting their pet theories. There's something of the conman's patter to that approach, some clever guys telling you what you want to hear. I also feel (vaguely, but sincerely) that the trick is not to cherrypick the past, but to come up with something new. Really new, not just re-arranged.
What do you guys reckon, if anything?
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#1905712 - 03/08/08 09:14 AM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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miroslav
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I think if you can creatively work a line or two into a song so that it doesn't sound cliché or pure name-dropping...it's not too bad.
But yeah...when it comes off as a cheap attempt to just "tap-into" some yesteryear vibe....Y-A-W-N.... 
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1906001 - 03/08/08 11:42 PM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: miroslav]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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I think it's a real Indie rock thing, that whole "academics of rock" thing. I've never noticed heavy rockers doing that.
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#1906062 - 03/09/08 08:21 AM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Griffinator
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I think it's a real Indie rock thing, that whole "academics of rock" thing. I've never noticed heavy rockers doing that.
Heavy rockers just use the well-worn chord progression paths - you know, vi-IV-V, vi-V-IV-III, etc.
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#1906738 - 03/10/08 01:19 PM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: Griffinator]
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Danzilla
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I like to use lyrics that reference some of my influences, especially if you can make it a double meaning; it could be the old band/song, or it could stand on it's own. It's kind of a secret nod & a wink for those who get it. To everyone else, it might just be an odd turn of phrase.
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#1909348 - 03/14/08 06:11 AM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: Danzilla]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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I like to use lyrics that reference some of my influences, especially if you can make it a double meaning; it could be the old band/song, or it could stand on it's own. It's kind of a secret nod & a wink for those who get it. To everyone else, it might just be an odd turn of phrase.
Yeah, sure. I agree.
But I can't help but wonder whether it's not "too clever by half"... or whether it's a good thing that rock has been around so long that it has developed the potential to be self-referential.
Personally, I feel a bit like the music is feeding upon itself rather than growing. But perhaps, in growth, there is also room for those that merely recycle the music?
Geoff? By "self-referential" I mean stuff that... well, you know how for a while, lots of action movies ripped off that bit with the slowed down bullet in The Matrix? That's what's meant by self-referential. Or when characters in films have names taken from other characters in other films, for example.
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#1909556 - 03/14/08 11:58 AM
Re: Self-Referential Rock
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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miroslav
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Well...putting lyrics aside for a minute...I think "rock" has been doing the self-referential gig almost from the start.
Someone came up with a cool tone...and everyone rushed out to cop it.
A neat couple of new licks...and everyone is playing them.
A particular new "vibe" in a song...and all of a sudden bands are trying to imitate.
But I know what you mean when it comes to "words", as they tend to really clarify/specify a person/phrase/place....and then one wonders whey they chose those "words"...just to be clever...???
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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