#1896 - 08/02/01 01:24 PM
Drums for home studio?
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Frunobulax
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Registered: 12/21/00
Posts: 151
Loc: Ottawa CANADA
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I have a home studio and a band. Right now our drummer brings her kit over for each practice. I like to record our practices, so it makes for a long setup time, kit, mics etc.
I've been thinking it would be good to get a kit for the studio to avoid these hassles, and maybe have it around for other bands to use. I eventually (soon) would like to offer recording services to local musicians. Or would most bands want to use their own kit anyway?
So my question is, what would be a good general purpose kit to get? Should I even consider vdrums or equivalent? I really like the sound of our drummer's Pearl kit, so I'm biased towards getting real drums.
Dave
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#1897 - 08/02/01 01:40 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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strat0124
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We have two sets in my little studio, my son's Pearl Exports, and an old set of Rodgers that just sound killer. I hear Lee's got a cool kit in her home. I prefer the old Ludwigs and Rodgers kits....they just have that sound. The drummer for the Blind Venetians here in Va Beach uses a high end Yamaha kit that I really like, it's somewhat smaller and it really fits well in a combo. The Pearls to me are more of a big rock kit....they just scream to be played loud.
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1898 - 08/02/01 01:58 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Lee Flier
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Hi Dave, I'm in the same situation as you (home studio and a band), and buying a drum kit for the studio was the best investment I made. Yes, there are a lot of drummers who like to use their own kit and that's fine if that's what is called for. But 1) a lot of kits that sound good on stage don't necessarily record well, and even if the drummer has a good sounding kit they still may want to use individual pieces of yours - like if they have hardware that rattles and yours doesn't.  and 2) of course, the drummer in your band will appreciate not having to haul the kit to practice all the time. Our drummer sure as HELL appreciates it!
Bottom line, if you invest in a kit that records well it will save you lots and lots of recording headaches. I was just saying in one of these forums the other day how it's amazing how many people are willing to spend thousands of dollars on top of the line mics and preamps only to record a drum kit that sounds like crap, and no amount of processing can fix it. Whereas you can have a great drum kit for the price of one top of the line mic pre, and it will sound good even recorded with cheap gear.
Anyhow, as far as what specific kit to buy, a lot of that is personal taste of course, and your drummer will probably have some opinions. V-drums are evil and that is a fact. My kit is the Gretsch Broadkaster series, which is a reissue of Gretsch's old jazz kit with updated hardware. In general, though, if you're gearing a kit towards recording there are a few rules of thumb that I've found to be true:
1) Smaller drums tuned lower sound bigger and more solid than larger drums when recorded. My kit has a 20" kick drum, 8x12 rack tom and 14x14 floor tom. Since you're in a band, you might want to get a snare drum of a different size and/or material than what your drummer has, so then you'll have multiple "flavors" in the studio. If your drummer has a metal snare for example, you might want to get a maple snare, or try an 8" or a 5-1/2" if your drummer has a 6-1/2"... etc.
2) Pay LOTS of attention to the hardware. Get solid hardware that doesn't rattle or squeak. That goes for the rims on the actual drums too - if you hit the drum and hear any kind of noise other than the resonance of the drum itself, even if it's not loud, it will become a problem when you try to record. That was a big factor in making me choose my Gretsch drums - nary a rattle or false tone anywhere. Most of my hardware is Gibraltar and Pearl and I have found it to be problem free in recording.
3) Thinner cymbals tend to record better than heavier ones.
Bottom line, grab your drummer and go to a store and try out a bunch of 'em. Make sure you try individual drums and cymbals, too - two of the same model will not sound the same. Also make sure you have someone around who knows how to tune drums well. If you engineer commercially that's a really good skill to learn. A lot of drummers with mostly stage experience and little studio experience, haven't mastered the art of tuning. Especially if they're really broke and can only change their heads once every 5 years.
And speaking of heads, try different heads on your new kit and see what you like best - different heads really make a difference in the sound.
Hope that helps, and have fun! I love having a cool drum kit!
--Lee
This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 08-02-2001 at 11:07 AM
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#1899 - 08/02/01 02:38 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I really like Lee's advice on drums. For brand names, I've had really good luck recording kits with the Yamaha Recording series, Gretsch, and Tama (although I've had far better results with the first two). I'd agree with the small drum set thing as well. A lot of the bands that record here would love it if they could bring sticks, maybe a few cymbals if they wanted, and just show up. If you record hardcore bands, have them bring (and trash) their own kit -- they hit those cymbals and drums *really* hard...
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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/Nectar
http://www.elevenshadows.com 4 music, travel, more!
http://www.cdbaby.com/elevenshadows
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#1900 - 08/02/01 02:41 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Uh Clem
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Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
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yep - Lee and I both shelled out for the Gretsch BK reissues - you won't find many drummers who'd balk at a nice Gretsch setup - or Slingerlands (the good ones) - a Radio King snare or Noble and Cooley Alloy Classic is nice to have around - mmm that Rogers set of Strat's would be very sweet.
I'm ridiculous  - I can't even play the drums worth a damn, but God, I love 'em.
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#1901 - 08/02/01 03:55 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Lee Flier
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I dunno, Steve, I think we could have a contest to see who is more ridiculous about drums. You sure do have great taste in 'em, though! Not just the Gretsch... I agree with ya about the old Slingerland and Rogers kits. Our drummer plays an old Slingerland kit that's awesome, and not too long ago I heard a Rogers kick drum from the 60's that was the most amazing kick I've ever heard. The impact of it would knock you over, and it was only a 20".
And yes, if you can afford them the Noble & Cooley snares are unbelievable especially for recording. They are pricey even for a sick fanatic like me, though.
Steve, are you familiar with this place:
http://www.atlantavintagedrums.com
Don't ever go there. You'll drool all over everything, and you'll start taking out second and third mortgages on your house.
--Lee
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#1902 - 08/02/01 04:09 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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strat0124
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You guys are killin me. One of the reasons I've run out of room in my little studio is all the crap stowed there, with the exception of guitar amps, the other killer is percussion stuff. We have one kit set up, one in cases, a vibraphone, congas, some homemade pvc percussion things my son made, etc. We have alot of toys. Alot of the stuff belongs to others, they bring it over and leave it. I really love Indian percussion....and want to purchase some of that stuff.....got a jones for adding some percussion sounds a'la' Loreena McKinnett. We also have hammered and mountain dulcimers there.....it's a play room for sure.
Maybe I should start another post: Odd instruments at your disposal.....
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1903 - 08/02/01 09:12 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Uh Clem
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Originally posted by Lee Flier:
I dunno, Steve, I think we could have a contest to see who is more ridiculous about drums. You sure do have great taste in 'em, though! Not just the Gretsch... I agree with ya about the old Slingerland and Rogers kits. Our drummer plays an old Slingerland kit that's awesome, and not too long ago I heard a Rogers kick drum from the 60's that was the most amazing kick I've ever heard. The impact of it would knock you over, and it was only a 20".
And yes, if you can afford them the Noble & Cooley snares are unbelievable especially for recording. They are pricey even for a sick fanatic like me, though.
Steve, are you familiar with this place:
http://www.atlantavintagedrums.com
Don't ever go there. You'll drool all over everything, and you'll start taking out second and third mortgages on your house.
--Lee
you are evil - put those apples away!
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#1904 - 08/03/01 01:38 AM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Frunobulax
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Loc: Ottawa CANADA
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Thanks for the tips. I'm meeting my drummer at our favorite music store tomorrow and we'll pick something out.
Dave
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#1905 - 08/04/01 06:23 AM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Frunobulax
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ok, we brought home a Premier Artist Maple kit, and some Zildjian A Custom cymbals. I was quite taken by the a Yamaha maple set they had, but even the Premier set was blowing my budget by 50%. The Yamahas would be 100% over budget.
We happened to run into the drummer's original drum teacher in the store, who told us in no uncertain terms that we would not be happy trying to record a set of anything but maple drums ("maple has good attack"), and that the Premiere kit was a great buy.
Well, I don't play drums, don't know anything about them, so I brought them home to try out. I've got a good relationship with the store manager.
First impression: sounds ok, but.....
the 22 inch bass drum sounds a bit sloppy. Needs something....
The toms sound good.
The snare - well, ouch. Doingggg! what's wrong with this thing?
I can take 'em back.... but really what's the problem? Not tuned right? Need one of those gel thingies? New skins? I can't believe a kit at this price point would have such a crappy sounding snare.
I haven't tried recording them yet.
Dave
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#1906 - 08/04/01 08:06 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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DC
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I've got a little 60's Ludwig kit, the little jazz deal with 20" kick, 12" ride tom and 14" floor with the crome supraphonic or whatever snare. I've found that deadening helps. You can make dead ringers out of weather stripping. Don't even try to get the kick to sound right without first putting a pillow in it and of course cutting a hole in the front head.
My problem is cymbals. Mine don't sound so good and are basically too loud for the kit. Any advice on good recording, hopefully not too expensive crashes that aren't super loud?
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#1907 - 08/04/01 09:16 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Jason Poff
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Registered: 05/11/01
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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The snare is not tuned right. You can make a $3,000 snare sound like a piece of shit with just a few lug turns. IMHO, absolutely get the kick as close as you can before adding the pillow. It's so much easier to hear what's happening with the tuning if the heads aren't muffled to death. Get the drum to sound as good as possible by itself, then add muffling if necessary.
Jason
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#1909 - 08/05/01 03:03 AM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Frunobulax
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Well I guess I'm gonna learn more about drums than I ever wanted to know :-)
I tried tweaking the tuning a bit and that reduced "doinggg" from the snare. What really eliminated it though was a piece of gel. Dunno if that's cheating, but it sure worked. I also tightened up the snare a bit and now I'm quite happy with the way it sounds.
I will pick up new heads too. Any recommendations of heads for recording purposes?
Thanks again for the tips, and I'll move further questions to the drum forum (after I do some more research). Buy first, research later, that's my motto :-)
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#1910 - 08/05/01 04:52 AM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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zele
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Registered: 01/12/01
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Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
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Really hard to beat a Kurzweil Rack with 10 seperate outputs and a Fat Kat (21 individual pads)---the only drums we use in all three studios---no set-up time!!!---easy MIDI punch-ins---no leakage>>> can even play with total headphones on,,, in the room with accoustic instruments!!! No neighbors to calm--best move we made 15 years ago----thanks kindly cjogo
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#1911 - 08/05/01 04:05 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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strat0124
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Don't be afraid to use other things in place of the traditional drum kit. I heard Mark O'Conner's CD (on the song Old Blue) where his drummer used a snare played with his fingers and hands, in his lap, and recorded his foot stomps. It sounds phenom. I also did something off kilter, my dad built us a huge butcher block dinner table made of oak. It resonates something awful. I did little thumb, finger and palm beats on it and close mic'd it......incredible sounds.
About midi drums......they're cool and all, but to me it doesn't capture the same vibe. I'm sure I'll get fooled now and then, but there's no substitute for a real drumkit. They sound good, but just not the same.
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#1912 - 08/05/01 04:28 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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Lee Flier
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Dave,
Yeah definitely a new drum kit needs some tweaking before it will sound good. The heads that come from the factory are rarely the ones you want to leave on, and the snares need to be adjusted, you need to find the "sweet spots" with tuning and all that sort of thing.
As for what kind of heads, for the kick drum I'd heartily recommend the Remo Powerstroke 3. They are VERY forgiving heads and will pretty much sound good no matter what (although ya still have to tune it! LOL). I personally use an Evans 2-ply "vented dry" head on my snare. These heads have little pinholes around the edges which eliminates a lot of ring. It sound great for recording, and you shouldn't have to use gel or a ring with it.
Toms, it really depends what kind of sound you're looking for. I have Aquarian Response heads on mine, and the coated single ply Remo heads work just fine too. Try a couple of different ones and see what you like. And be sure to post on the drum forum when you're ready to change your heads, for tips on getting new heads to seat properly on the rims, tuning tips, etc.
--Lee
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#1913 - 08/06/01 01:15 PM
Re: Drums for home studio?
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-
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I don't have anything to add -- I just wanted to thank everyone for a great thread!!! 
This one is getting printed out for when I go shopping for the rest of my kit. Lots of useful advice in here... Thanks, everybody!!!
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