#1891324 - 02/13/08 08:35 PM
Boutique gear
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Bluesape
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Anybody feeling they want quality beyond their Strat, Tele, LP, J bass, Twin, JCM, SVT.....? There's a growing industry of craftspeople out there who say that THEY build a better mousetrap. Most of our idols tend to stick with mainstream gear, with the occasional endorsement for an "elite" product, that's hand-built, hand-wired, hand-carved, hand-sanded, hand-finished, and hand-packed for shipping. A few of our own beloved members endeavor to improve upon the benchmarks, and some really cool gear is now at our fingertips. So let's hear from ya....who's ready to step up to boutique gear? I'll go on a limb and state that a higher level of quality than mass production can deliver is out there.
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#1891351 - 02/14/08 01:31 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Bluesape]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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I'll go on a limb and state that a higher level of quality than mass production can deliver is out there.
Erm... yes, of course.
My maximum respect and all that, Reif, but I thought it would be fairly self-evident that craftsmen who, after years of training, pay careful attention to every stage of production will invariably make a better instrument than some factory guy with a bandsaw?
I get the feeling that I'm missing the point of what you're saying, somehow...
Admittedly, there's differences between luthiers and not all of them are on a level with Stradivarius.
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#1891403 - 02/14/08 06:19 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Joe Muscara]
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Griffinator
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Fact is, most people aren't willing to pay the premium cost associated with premium craftsmanship in any category.
I'd love to, but I can't afford it. If I had $8,000 to drop on a Zon custom bass and another 2 grand for a Reinhardt tube head, I'd do it in a minute. Unfortunately, that's $10,000 that could be spent on much more pressing needs.
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#1891441 - 02/14/08 07:43 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Griffinator]
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Dr. Ellwood
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I just don't see the reason for custom made guitars and boutique amps. I would much rather invest in select vintage instruments and proven road worthy vintage amps. These are the only kinds of instruments and amps I've ever used and although not cheap by any means I see that their market value is always increasing, and they perform perfectly without fail.
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#1891457 - 02/14/08 08:02 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
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Griffinator
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I just don't see the reason for custom made guitars and boutique amps. I would much rather invest in select vintage instruments and proven road worthy vintage amps. These are the only kinds of instruments and amps I've ever used and although not cheap by any means I see that their market value is always increasing, and they perform perfectly without fail.
Irony:
The "select vintage instruments" of which you speak are predominantly "selected" for the same attributes we're discussing here - high-quality craftsmanship!
Let's face it, Lee. Gibson and Fender just don't put the level of craftsmanship into their new stuff (except, in some rare cases, the "Custom Shop" gear) they used to - that's why a '57 LP or a '62 Strat is so highly prized, where a brand new one may cost a lot, but its resale is just like everyone else's - about 2/3 what you paid, even a year later.
I'm not arguing with your position, I just find it humorous that you'd rather pay super-premium prices for old gear than pay premium prices for new gear that's made under the same quality standards that make your old kit so valuable!
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#1891956 - 02/14/08 07:47 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Griffinator]
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KenElevenShadows
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I already have stepped up to boutique stuff. I'll do this anytime it suits my needs. Carr Rambler, GirlBrand guitar, Diamond Memory Lane pedal, etc. Then again, I'm not adverse to playing my '67 SG or my Strat or Nord Electro II either.
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#1892008 - 02/14/08 11:05 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: KenElevenShadows]
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miroslav
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I'm very impressed with the THD Flexi-50 I picked up a few months ago...whereas prior to that, I was using a lot of the more "common" amps.
There is certainly a noticeable difference in tone quality and responsiveness with the Flexi.
AFA guitars...I'm not convinced that I need to spend much more than several hundred for a good playing guitar.
IMO…the amp is doing most of the work...that's where the tone differences are seen most.
My less expensive guitars sound just as good through the Flexi as costlier, brand-name guitars…and I’ve had a couple people over with their “serious” brand-name guitars trying out the Flexi…and even some of my $300 guitars sounded as good.
Actually…a couple of them sounded noticeable better than the pricy, brand-name ones! 
But then…tone is a very subjective thing….
And when I played through the more “common” amps…all those guitars again sounded about equal in tone quality.
So…it seems to me that the amp is key…and worth spending a few extra bucks on.
Of course, if you are really into fancy inlay and exotic woods…then spend the $$$ for one of those guitars.
Also…I think I’ve completely turned the corner on vintage guitars and amps…and now I’m just interested in new/modern amps and current production guitars.
Sure, there’s nice vintage gear out there…but it’s almost silly-pricey…
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#1892594 - 02/16/08 01:19 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Dr. Ellwood]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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I just don't see the reason for custom made guitars and boutique amps. I would much rather invest in select vintage instruments and proven road worthy vintage amps.
But Lee... those "select vintage instruments" were made by small scale guitar makers.
Ok, perhaps Gibson was already established as a large scale manufacturer by the 1950s but Leo Fender worked personally on his early stuff. Martin was a small family company for a long time, too.
ALL of those established companies started out as what would today be considered "a boutique manufacturer". ALL of them started as just a guy and his woodworking tools.
And if people had never bought those newfangled electric guitars from that small workshop in California, there would never have been any Stratocasters, would there?
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#1892977 - 02/17/08 05:24 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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EddiePlaysBass
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Well I've always wanted a Warwick bass custom-built to my liking. I am saving up very, very slowly by keeping my 2 euro coins in a jar. Yeah, I know how it sounds, but I'm up to roughly $580 which is like 1/4th of my absolute minimum needs.
But the truth is, I'm learning everyday about what "my liking" is as far as basses go. I love the tone of my Ibanez BTB 5-string and I love the feel of my Yamaha TRB II 6-string. I have found that for 99% of what I do, I don't need that high C string so contrary to what I always wanted to opt for, I'll most likely not go for a 6-string but for a 5-er with a wide neck.
It'll take a few more years for me to get there, and the Lord knows I could have been there a few times already if I didn't spend so much on buying cd's, DVD's and books but hey, I'm satisfied with the gear I have now. Having a custom-built or boutique bass will be something I'll enjoy immensely. Once I have the money to afford it
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"... and I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend ..." (Dream Theater - Space Dye Vest) My band - The Dapper Dans
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#1893586 - 02/18/08 08:13 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Strategery]
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miroslav
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My 89 Strat that I bought new is now almost 20 years old and it's like a fine bottle of wine.
It just keeps sounding better with age.
Mmmmmmm...not looking to stir anything up...but I just don't buy the whole "age" thing, unless you want to treat a guitar/amp like furniture or a museum piece that sits in a environmentally controlled case.
Wood does NOT really improve with age.
It takes awhile to settle in...and then at some point, it starts to deteriorate.
This may take many, MANY years...but especially if you are playing a guitar, it will change and wear down.
But unless the neck goes way out on you...IMO...the microscopic deterioration is not that important, as long as you have good pickups.
(Funny how you decided to change out the pickups. )
And...that brings us to the electronic gear...the pickups, the amps.
Electronic components also do NOT improve with age.
Caps will dry out...windings will short out...and speaker cones will crap out. This too may take many years...but it will happen.
I think most often people are influenced by the “vibe” of a 40-50 year old guitar or amp…and that WILL affect their perception of quality...or the "improving-with-age" quality.
But hey…IMO…*vibe* is a very important ingredient…so it’s all good. 
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#1893754 - 02/18/08 12:01 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: miroslav]
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EddiePlaysBass
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Wood does NOT really improve with age.
It takes awhile to settle in...and then at some point, it starts to deteriorate.
I loved my dad's comment yesterday, when he looked at the Status Quo album I bought and saw Rick Parfitt (I think, could have been the other guy) playing this worn-down Strat. He went:
"I think Fender has the worst paint jobs in the history of electric guitar."
Yes, I realise it was totally unrelated to anything said previously, but I just wanted to share this one
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"... and I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend ..." (Dream Theater - Space Dye Vest) My band - The Dapper Dans
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#1893770 - 02/18/08 12:22 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: EddiePlaysBass]
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miroslav
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I loved my dad's comment yesterday, when he looked at the Status Quo album I bought and saw Rick Parfitt....
Oh...yeah, Status Quo!
I loved Piledriver...and them all standing there in front of all those stacks, with their hair hanging down over their guitars!
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1893795 - 02/18/08 12:39 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: miroslav]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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And...that brings us to the electronic gear...the pickups, the amps.
Electronic components also do NOT improve with age.
Caps will dry out...windings will short out...and speaker cones will crap out. This too may take many years...but it will happen.
Well, yes and no. I agree with you that pickups and the other electronics DON'T improve with age.
HOWEVER... guitars sound best through tube/valve amps which really, are pretty poor technology compared with transistors. At the same time, when you buy a brand-new "vintage" pickup, what you're actually getting is a pickup whose magnets have been artificially weakened to give a more mellow sound. That's because fifty year old magnets are weaker than newly produced ones.
So basically, I'd say that the "improvement" with age that people always describe in regards to guitars is nothing that you could actually measure scientifically since it's all a question of taste, and that's bloody hard to quantify objectively.
So basically, whether a pickup "improves" with age is a pretty subjective thing and has nothing to do with a specs sheet.
Perhaps the same applies to the wood.
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#1893915 - 02/18/08 03:17 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Griffinator
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HOWEVER... guitars sound best through tube/valve amps which really, are pretty poor technology compared with transistors.
Huh?! 
They may be older technology, but as amplification circuits go, the solid-state transistor amplifier is absolutely an inferior circuit compared with tubes.
The tube amp is a simple, very elegant design. Yes, tubes are larger, generate more heat, and are just more cumbersome to deal with than transistors. However, the pure linearity of a Class A triode amp absolutely trounces the output quality of a MOSFET.
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#1893952 - 02/18/08 04:33 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Griffinator]
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Strategery
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How about the OLD Stradivarius that sells for millions and the really Great Violinists would die for?
Did it sound as good NEW...as it does now?
I think wood mellows with age and vibrates more easily.
What's the general consensus of the guitar greats out there on this and why do they seem to prefer the oldies?
Is it the OLD technology, the age, or the combination of the two?
Just curious.
Randy
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#1893963 - 02/18/08 04:58 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Griffinator]
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miroslav
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The tube amp is a simple, very elegant design.
Today I was trying out various tubes, as I just got a nice bunch of JJ's on Saturday.
And the one thing I realized is just how much I love tubes. Not just for their tone...but there's something exciting even when holding a tube in your hands...
...I just never felt that way holding a transistor.
How about the OLD Stradivarius that sells for millions and the really Great Violinists would die for?
Did it sound as good NEW...as it does now?
Well...that would difficult to know, unless you had a time capsule...but I think the reason Stradivarius violins are so expensive, is that 1.) They were exceptionally made to begin with...and 2.) They haven't be made in 300 years.
I don't think the high price has anything to do with the “aging of the wood”....nor would I compare it to a 50's 60's electric guitar that was a somewhat mass-produced, assembly line item.
And I still say a lot of it is just "vibe"...as people will go to great lengths to find some miniscule difference in vintage guitar...like that the jack-plate was made from brass instead of steel, or something...and then they will assign all kinds of "magical properties" to that one difference. 
It’s all good if it makes you happy….
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#1903439 - 03/04/08 07:56 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Guitar Geezer]
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Bluesape
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Well, after playing a Tom Anderson, I can now say I get it! Boutique is a separate dimension!
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#1904270 - 03/06/08 07:47 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Bluesape]
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Dave Bryce
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I got yer boutique gear right here. 
Meet my Macbeth M5:
Now THAT's what I'm talking about. 
dB
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#1904305 - 03/06/08 08:29 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Dave Bryce]
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Danzilla
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Son-of-HAL!
Dave, what are you doing?
Don't touch my sliders, Dave. I am in control.
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#1904658 - 03/06/08 02:33 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Bluesape]
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Griffinator
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Well, after playing a Tom Anderson, I can now say I get it! Boutique is a separate dimension!
Yep. It really is.
I'm kinda surprised that some of the folks around here that willingly spend $300 and up for an overdrive (or even just a simple boost) pedal don't see the value in spending a couple grand for a hand-wired point-to-point tube amp, or a hand-crafted, fully customized to spec axe with all the best in hardware, etc.
I do - I just don't have the dosh to lay out for it. Simple economics. But I've heard the difference, and it's amazing.
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#1950408 - 05/30/08 07:34 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Griffinator]
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Bluesape
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Dug out my old Blade for the jam last night, and am kicking myself for not doing it sooner. I have 2, the nearly pristine one I played last night doesn't see enough use cuz I want to keep it that way. It would qualify as boutique, as it's from the earlier days. Most playable neck I've ever seen. To be fair, the Tom Anderson I played a while back wasn't set up to my preference, with heavier strings and a rosewood board, but the feel blew me away! I imagine a maple board version with 8's would hold its own with the Blade, or anything else on the planet!
From a tone standpoint, I believe ya can make any great piece of tonewood sound great with the plethora of pickups, caps, pots, nuts, and bridges available today, but certain guitars have a feel to them that just can't be consistently found in mass produced models. I attribute that to the extra attention to detail that a master luthier will give an individual product, which just can't happen on an assembly line.
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#1951692 - 06/02/08 04:55 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Strategery]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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How about the OLD Stradivarius that sells for millions and the really Great Violinists would die for?
Did it sound as good NEW...as it does now?
Well, ok... I've recently finished reading a biography of Niccolo Paganini and he paid quite a bit for his Strads, and this was at a time when they would have been brand new. Obviously, the quality was there from the beginning.
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#1952108 - 06/02/08 03:58 PM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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Strategery
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Cool...good research.
Hey Reif, I've been having fun at the boutique stores lately.
I've played several Dr. Z's, a fantastic Bogner Shiva, a fine Rivera Venus 3, Mesa Lonestar & Express, and several others.
You're right...these are different animals for sure.
Over the last few decades, I've been pretty much a Fender amp kinda guy.
I really like my Fender Concert Reverb 4/10, but I've also had fun owning and playing a Fender Twin Amp, Mesa Dual Rectifier with 4/12, Marshall Silver Anniversary 2/12 combo, Marshall DSL & TSL Combos, and a few other Fenders and peaveys.
With that under my belt, I'm not ashamed to say that these new breed of boutique amps are hands above the factory line amps.
Right now, I'm deciding between 3 amps.
Decisions, decisions.
Randy
Edited by Strategery (06/02/08 04:00 PM)
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#1952471 - 06/03/08 09:50 AM
Re: Boutique gear
[Re: Strategery]
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miroslav
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Aren't you driving down to Florida to check out the Tungsten amps?
C'mon now....you shoulda been there and back already!
Waiting on your report.
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