#1885158 - 02/04/08 12:07 PM
Too Much Too Soon
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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Hi All,
Okay here it goes! I have made some foolish mistakes that have cost me money and time. I was too hasty and not thorough enough when it came to doing all of my "homework"! I am now paying the price for diving in too quickly and building 8, wood, membrane, panel traps before doing enough thorough research on how to treat my room better.
I now know, that due to the small size of my room, I should have just used 4" thick insulation across the corners of my room rather than building the wood panel traps. Dought!!!! That being said, would I be better off cutting my loses, opening up my wood panel traps, salvaging the OC 703 1" and using it for more fabric wrapped panels? Or, should I leave my wood panel traps where they are and finish treating the rest of my room with 4" thick Roxul Rockboard 60 straddled across the remainder of my room corners?
I have taken some measurements of my room using Room EQ Wizard. REW is the only program that I have found to run successfully on a mac. If anyone knows of a better program to use on a MAC, please let me know.
The graph shows that I have some serious nulls at:
42.6 HZ
83.3 HZ
153.2 HZ
430.8 HZ
These are relatively close multiples of each other. Thoughts on this? Anyone? I have also posted a picture of my room with the wood panel traps in it. Please comment on my room setup. Any advice on all of my issues would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Erik   [img]<a href="http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj47/ricotrex/?action=view¤t=4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj47/ricotrex/4.jpg" border="0" alt="curtain pulled"></a>[/img]
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#1885161 - 02/04/08 12:08 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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Sorry, here are the pictures of my room.  
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#1885392 - 02/04/08 10:06 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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BusyBoxSt7
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Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Dallas
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The room looks pretty small. You should post dimensions but it's clearly way too small to be using panel traps (IMO). You'll need 4"+ (my opinion) cloth covered fiberglass/insulation panels. I'd consider building superchunks instead though because it's going to take a lot to flatten the bass response in a room that size.
Panel traps cover too narrow a range of bass anyway, you need broadband absorption. Also, your current setup appears (I can't quite tell) to not have the first reflection areas treated to your sides. And if you leave those wood traps there, you may be getting first reflections off those too.
Also, READ THIS
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
It contains the answers to most basic questions.
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
You need to SELL those panel traps. Why? Because they take time to make and that's down the drain if you destroy them to get a measly 1" of insulation out.
email me if you need info. I don't check this board and the notifications never work for some reason.
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#1885411 - 02/04/08 11:32 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: BusyBoxSt7]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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Thanks Stephen! I have read and now re-read Ethan's FAQ. As far as the super chunks go would you recommend Roxul Rockboard 60 or OC 705? The specs on the Roxul looked a little better and it is slightly cheaper than the OC 705 from what I've found.
Yes, I guess trying to sell these panel traps would be better than tearing them open for the 1" 703. The problem is they are so heavy and would really only make sense to sell them to someone locally who can pick them up. I guess I'll give it a try on Craig's List.
As for the room dimensions. The width is 8' 4". The height and length are questionable due to the way the room is laid out. It has a vaulted ceiling but it is not symmetrical. The left wall is 9' 5" tall while the right wall is 8' 6" tall. The peak height is 11' 5" tall. The length is really hard to determine as there is a half wall and "pseudo" window opening before you truly get to the other side of the catwalk. Please see the pictures. Hopefully they will illustrate what I am trying to say. From the front of the room to the half wall is 13' 7". From the front of the room across the catwalk is 20'. This has been a real challenge for me to figure out how the 38% rule works in a room such as mine. If you can imagine standing on the catwalk from the photos the whole rest of the condo is open you can look down on either side of the cat walk and see the Kitchen, Dining, and Living rooms. It really opens up into a big room once you reach the catwalk. Any more advice would be helpful.
Thanks
   Erik
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#1885660 - 02/05/08 09:45 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5299
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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REW is the only program that I have found to run successfully on a mac. If anyone knows of a better program to use on a MAC, please let me know.
Here you go:
http://www.fuzzmeasure.com
Highly recommended.
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#1885690 - 02/05/08 10:18 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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Hi Ethan,
Thanks for the link to the other measurement program. Is there any other advice you could give me about my current room situation?
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#1885752 - 02/05/08 11:23 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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Ethan! WOW! Fuzz Measure is fantastic! Thanks again.
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#1886200 - 02/06/08 06:20 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5299
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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Is there any other advice you could give me about my current room situation?
Close-up photos like the ones you posted are not very useful because they don't show the room in context. I'd be happy to offer advice, but I can't really see how your room is laid out in the "big picture."
--Ethan
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#1888340 - 02/09/08 01:35 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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So Sorry Ethan. Is it because the pictures are too big pixel wise, or is it the vantage point from which they were taken? Unfortunately, the room is so small and there is no other place to take the shots from. I can, of course, reduce the shots in terms of pixels if that's what you mean?!
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#1888349 - 02/09/08 02:01 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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#1888354 - 02/09/08 02:14 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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The last picture that you see is the back left corner of my room from a listeners perspective. In other words, if you are sitting at the listening position this is the corner that is over your left shoulder. As you can see, it is a half wall in respect to the width and the height of the room. From the middle and top picture you can see the maroon and blue trimmed curtain that I have pulled aside. I use that to keep out room ambience from the rest of the Condo. Because of the layout of this loft/room it is hard to say what the real back wall is. This makes it hard for me to determine where my 38% of the room really is?! From the front wall to the half back wall is 13' 7". From the front wall across the catwalk to the back wall of the condo is 20'. Hard to say? Any thoughts and/or other advice you can give me would be much appreciated.
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#1888646 - 02/10/08 06:55 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5299
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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or is it the vantage point from which they were taken?
Yes, vantage, though the original photos are a little large too. Maybe you can make a simple floor plan? As it is I can't really tell what I'm looking at. Or maybe it's me? Can everyone else tell what we're seeing?
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#1888935 - 02/10/08 05:46 PM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: Ethan Winer]
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ricotrex
Senior Member
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 32
Loc: Santa Clarita, California
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I have made a very crude drawing of my room from a birds eye view. I hesitate to do this because it does not show the half wall in context. Please reference the old photos after you look at the floor plan. Hopefully this will clear up the confusion. 
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#1889363 - 02/11/08 09:59 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: Ydope]
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silverdisk
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Registered: 08/06/05
Posts: 36
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id keep the panel traps but add to them. Id mount them flush on the wall at the corners, not across the corners. Then mount porous absorbers across the corners in front of but not touching the membrane panels.
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#1889380 - 02/11/08 10:20 AM
Re: Too Much Too Soon
[Re: ricotrex]
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Ethan Winer
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/12/00
Posts: 5299
Loc: New Milford, CT, USA
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I have made a very crude drawing of my room from a birds eye view.
Thanks, that helps a lot. The loudspeaker orientation you have now looks fine. So treat the reflection points, and put bass traps in as many corners as you can, and you should be in good shape.
--Ethan
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