#1882831 - 01/31/08 07:32 PM
The ultimate UPS ???
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paully
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Man, this thing looks impressive. Unfortunately I couldn't get a price to pass along.
http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/specs/pv_specs.pdf
Best, Paul
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WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
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#1882967 - 02/01/08 06:11 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: paully]
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audiorulez
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Did you see the size and noise specs?
92 amps, what studio needs 92 amps of power?
I'm guessing it's a hefty 5 figures.
I'm quite happy with my APC that's smaller than a desktop computer and can power our entire control room for 20 minutes, plenty of time to save and shut down. It was under $500.
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#1882975 - 02/01/08 06:25 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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That's just a bit overkill for my needs! 
I don't think I draw more than 20 amps when everything is on...but I am wired up for 60 amps in the studio.
I'm using a single 1000VA UPS...which is enough to cover my computer, monitors, converters, external drives.
The analog console, guitar amps, rack gear...etc...is just on a Voltage Regulator/Noise Suppressor box...no UPS for that stuff.
Also...I would not use just any old UPS for my analog audio...as most of them do NOT have pure sine wave output...but rather an approximation of a sine wave...which is a fancy way of saying it's a staircase sine wave...and that's not really good for analog audio.
There are a few UPS models that CAN do pure sine wave output….but they are very pricey compared to your typical UPS boxes.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1883043 - 02/01/08 07:45 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: miroslav]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Yeah, like Miro says, UPSes are not a great solution for audio or other reactive loads, though they are great for computers. A better solution for a studio in terms of power control would be one of the toridal transformer solutions to keep the existing power clean and at a ccnstant voltage for when you DO have power, and really, just shut down when you don't. And there is always the balanced power option. But anyway, I think that money is better spent cleaning up the power that is there, rather than worrying about battery backups for when power is not there. Good housekeeping (meaning, back up your work often) is a cheap answer for the lack of a UPS. Other than that, almost any UPS will work for your computer/audio data needs to give you time to safely shut down. Or you could do what Ethan Winer did, and run a massive battery system... it is way cool, fairly expensive but not unreasonably so for the value and features, and requires venting.
Bill
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#1883218 - 02/01/08 11:11 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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miroslav
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My one only concern with my computer/peripherals, and the reason why I even bother having them on a UPS, is protecting during data transfers from/to external drives.
I know if you do a basic Copy/Paste of data...it should not corrupt the original data if there is power glitch...but, I just prefer NOT to have any power glitches during those times… and most certainly not during the Moving of data.
Otherwise...having a power outage during tracking or mixing... *shrug* …you just pick up where you left off after the power comes back on. 
I have a pair of 20 amp Furman Voltage regulators…and I may soon also ad one of their balanced power options after the regulators to further clean up the AC noise…though my AC is generally pretty clean where I am….there is no industrial activity or heavy electrical machinery/appliances…etc.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1885468 - 02/05/08 05:27 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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Spending money on a good quality UPS is money well invested. There are many products out there marketed as "line conditioners", "power conditioners" etc., that claim to have magic powers over the incoming juice, but nothing beats a good UPS. We have an APC here that runs our entire control room, and the difference was amazing. We have good power to begin with, but having everything through the APC's balanced, regulated power, the noise floor dropped overall another 6db. We can literally pull the plug and run for over 20 minutes, more than ample time to save and shut down should we lose power for an extended period of time.
Best 1/2 a grand I ever spent.
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#1885550 - 02/05/08 07:51 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: audiorulez]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Spending money on a good quality UPS is money well invested. ...Best 1/2 a grand I ever spent.
Perhaps. But your experiences are significantly different than mine. I didn't need the power conditioning offered as a side issue from APC as I had that already covered. I just wanted just good safe backup. When the lightening hit the pole across the street, the APC failed, fried, and fried my rig.
One of the big selling points is the 'insurance' offered by APC. Read the fine print. You have to send the computer and the UPS to them, and they will decide their level of culpability and reimburse you accordingly, after having 30 days to consider the matter. Could you afford to be out of business for 30 days or more, plus shipping time? Hmmm...
I couldn't. I replaced the fried parts in the computer myself and was back in business after a few days.
The best UPSes (as has already been mentioned)provide constant power from the battery, filtering and cleaning up the voltage and outputting a sine wave. That is a good thing. That is also not the norm.
But I still question the practicality of using a UPS with a reactive high-curent draw load like amps, and the possibility of current starving the playback system. Maybe not such a concern in a smaller room, probably a bigger concern in a place with huge playback speakers or a mastering room.
Still though, for the purposes of cleaing up the incoming power, there are better solutions than a UPS. The primary purpose of a UPS is to provide battery backup so that you do not lose your work. On that basis alone APC failed my needs, and cost me quite a bit in repairs and lost work. I paid for a secutity, but it was a false security. No amount of, "...well, that never happened to me..." is going to change my perspective, because it did happen to me, and it was not pleasant.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1885558 - 02/05/08 08:03 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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audiorulez
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I doubt there is anything that would have saved your gear in that situation. You got hit at the supply transformer, that's going to send a very fast spike directly to you, in addition to sending a spike on the ground plane.
It very well may not have been the hit from the power that killed your computer either. If it is connected to the internet or a phone line, that is a very likely candidate for the path of the hit as well, as both have direct connections to ground.
As I said, we have very decent power here, but the difference with the UPS vs the incoming supply unfiltered was a good 6db of lowered noise floor. Very significant.
For GB purposes, yes the UPS is designed to provide emergency power if your source fails, but for the audio professional, they also provide a stable, constant power source.
It is important as you somewhat point out that there is ample current supply. One should always have a UPS that is capable of providing well beyond the maximum peak current draw potential.
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#1885653 - 02/05/08 09:38 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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Furman AR20 - Voltage Regulator for constant power, noise suppression and filtering and surge suppression.
Furman IT20 - Balanced Power Conditioner for 80 dB of common mode noise reduction from 20Hz -20kHz and additional surge suppression.
I wouldn't hook up any audio devices to any UPS that doesn't output a pure sine wave....but YMMV.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1885722 - 02/05/08 10:50 AM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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OUCH!!!!!
That's some mightily fancy prices for devices that don't even give you backup power.
Our APC (sorry don't know the model, it's buried in the machine room) is pure sine wave output, one of the first things i checked when we got it, and as I said, reduced the already very low noise floor an additional 6db. In addition, we get a solid 20 minutes with everything on with the battery supply only.
FWIW, it was under $600.
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#1885846 - 02/05/08 01:15 PM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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Our APC yields true balanced power, one of the reasons we chose it. The additional 6db of noise floor lowering over our already very low noise floor was why we kept it.
We don't run the batteries down regularly, however we do run tests about once a month to check their capabilities, as even if they are never run down, eventually they do lose the ability to hold a charge.
Furman is great at marketing. They have some good devices, but many of them are not quite as great as advertised, particularly their Rack mount line conditioner/power strips. Great for power access and rack lighting, but very short on conditioning.
I saw one go up in flames once when the "protection circuits" which were several years old, couldn't take the heat of a component malfunction. Fortunately for the user (a guitarist with one of those monster racks) suffered little damage, and probably gained a bit of fame for his blistering riffs sending his rack up in smoke and fire!!!!
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#1885852 - 02/05/08 01:24 PM
Re: The ultimate UPS ???
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
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Yeah...I agree...those small, 1-RU strips are nothing special...but I think their higher ends units, like the AR-20 and IT-20 are pretty darn good and they do what they are supposed to.
Heck...every time I see one of the IT-20 Balanced Power Conditioners on eBay...it's an instant bidding frenzy if the price is good.
Yeah...they are expensive....but many studios use them and swear buy them for AC noise suppression. Because they literally float the ground (but in a safe way)...ground loops and noise is completely eliminated and your headroom is substantially increased.
Oh...and AFA marketing strategy...APC also does a GREAT job of selling a lot of junk...and you have to drop some serious $$$ before you get into their real good quality stuff.
If you get a chance....I would love to know what model ACP you bought for around $500 that also does pure sine wave, and that can handle a substantial amount of gear for 20 minutes.
Hey...if it's really a better option than the Furman stuff...I'm game. 
But I would first like to read the model's specs....
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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