#1878955 - 01/24/08 06:20 PM
making DOORS for WINDOWS
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BusyBoxSt7
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Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Dallas
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[[this is also posted on Tape Op but was getting little response]]
background
I live over a noisy street and I need to make some "doors" for my windows. The basic idea is to put a mineral wool backed (window side, not room side) MDF door on hinges drilled into the brick wall and be able to open/close and secure them w/ some heavy duty latches I got. Oh and I could make an unattached mineral wool layer to set inside it against the window if an air gap is needed (see #2 if that doesn't make sense)... Oh, and I'm thinking the MDF will fill up the whole cavity, flush w/ the brick on each side.
PICTURES
see http://www.xanga.com/stereoloy and click on the pics if you want to see them bigger
measurements
BORDER- 4.25" wood (except at bottom where it's flat like a shelf of course)
BRICKS- stick about 1.25" out into the room from the wood border
WIDE- 49" brick to brick (for MDF), 40" wood to wood (for min wool)
HIGH- 5'10" (70") sill (shelf) to brick, 66" sill* to wood (-2 for the blinds?)
*need to build a bottom wood border for the rubber seal
DEEP-
bottom pane-3.25-3.5" glass to edge of wood border
top pane- 5-5.5" glass to edge of wood border
MDF- 3/4" thick, 49" wide (nice how that worked out)
RUBBER SEAL- 2.5" wide, 1.25 X 1.5 if used as right angle (see pics)
-7/32" (almost 1/4) at the thickest part
IMPORTANT NOTE: W/ 3/4 MDF and a 1.25" brick lip, there's 1/2" for rubber seals (I can make this more or less via shims) AND that's an extra 1/2" to factor into the mineral wool/ air gap possibilities.
1) the seal
I got some garage door rubber (for the bottom of a garage door). It's similar to trunk rubber in consistency and is partly angled so it could work for a right angle or be pressed flat... I'm trying to decide where exactly to place it and also whether to double it up. Possible places:
[[# in ()= # of layers]]
1-(1) In the right angles where the border meets the bricks.
2-(1) on the wood border (attached on the window side, not to the door)
3-(2) one on the wood border and one on the door to mirror it's position exactly
4-(2) double it up side by side (i.e. a smaller "0" inside a bigger "O" if you think of it like an O-ring) on the wood border.
5-(2) one in the right angle and one in the border
Anyway, you get the idea. What are your thoughts? I do have one concern with #3 that the combined thickness may get too much to close the door.
2) air gap?
2 options for an air gap. Sound could go through either way
glass-> 8.0 mineral wool -> MDF
glass-> min. wool -> AIR -> min wool -> MDF
Or I guess I could put the min wool against the mdf and leave the air by the glass...CHECK THE MEASUREMENTS! I've got 1", 2", etc of mineral wool available. Should I just forget the air gap? Thoughts?
3) The bottom of the seal/sill.
The (typical) window sill makes a shelf at the bottom and there is not the border area to screw the rubber seal into. Any tips on what I should make this of? How thick? etc. I'm thinking of using some of the leftover MDF.
4) Thicker?
Should I add more fiberglass (or MDF) to the back (inside the room) these? I ask this from a transmission perspective. I know I may end up needing it there for RFZ type reasons. But if that's the only reason, then I'd build stands cause these are already going to be SUPER heavy doors.
THANKS A TON.
The books (Everest and Gervais) are great but I really love the interaction of the forum(s) too...
Did I forget anything?
_________________
Stephen Hudson
http://www.thebusyboxstudio.com
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#1879060 - 01/24/08 10:10 PM
Re: making DOORS for WINDOWS
[Re: BusyBoxSt7]
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Rod Gervais
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 478
Loc: Central Village, CT
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Stephen - do not attach hinges directly into the bricks - there are reasons that everything installed into bricks has frames.......
Bricks are not designed to take directly the lateral forces that a door will impart on it's hinges - and the frame helps to spead those forces out along the brick sections - not just locally.
You want a nice detail - use a hybrid of mine with your custom door -
Sincerely,
Rod
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#1879065 - 01/24/08 10:26 PM
Re: making DOORS for WINDOWS
[Re: Rod Gervais]
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BusyBoxSt7
Member
Registered: 03/22/07
Posts: 29
Loc: Dallas
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Rod,
So what should I attach them to?
What do you mean by "you want a nice detail"? If you mean if I want it to look good, I'm not real concerned. I just need them to work.
"a hybrid of mine with your custom door"
-what are you referring to? Something in your book? If so, I've got it, what page? If not, what?
Not trying to be a weeny, just didn't understand some of that.
PS. I failed to mention that this is a rented space. If it involves removing the current windows or building new frames that require major alterations to the current window frames, it's not an option I don't think.
Edited by BusyBoxSt7 (01/25/08 12:21 AM)
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#1879712 - 01/26/08 05:47 AM
Re: making DOORS for WINDOWS
[Re: BusyBoxSt7]
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Rod Gervais
Senior Member
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 478
Loc: Central Village, CT
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Stephen,
it has been my experience that things that look like garbage work like garbage.......
Make it nice and you'll know that all of your seal layers have the same pressure on their face (and thus no weak spots) etc., etc., etc.
Make a frame for this that sits flat on the face of the wall - you can then build a jamb that runc back and fits 1/4" away from the windown jamb.
This way you can avoid putting any of the hinge pressure directly on the brick.
My standard door details modified for this fit-up should suffice.
Rod
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