#1866974 - 01/05/08 05:00 AM
Phono Preamp
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sergiobklyn
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Can anyone recommend a phono preamp with USB or digital output? A friend of mine is looking for one. He's interested mostly in quality.
Thanks,
Serge
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#1867015 - 01/05/08 07:24 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: sergiobklyn]
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Griffinator
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If he's interested mostly in quality, he needs to get a high quality phono pre and a separate D/A converter.
None of the integrated phono pre-D/A boxes are worth the plastic they're made of.
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#1867191 - 01/05/08 12:08 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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sergiobklyn
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Thanks
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#1869368 - 01/09/08 05:30 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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I didn't say they didn't exist, AR, I said they aren't worth the plastic they're made of.
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#1869546 - 01/09/08 11:31 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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As I said, on the contrary. Both of those are excellent devices, and neither are made of plastic.
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#1869574 - 01/09/08 12:28 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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Do you argue just to argue?
You, of all people, who eschews "combo boxes" at every turn, is now singing the praises of a couple of cheap combo boxes?
Why, just because they do something that you don't care about (capturing vinyl to digital on the cheap)?
Shoot, why not just point him to one of those Numarks turntables with the built-in USB port?
If you're gonna cheap out with a one-box, go ahead and cheap out all the way, don't pull punches.
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#1869605 - 01/09/08 01:14 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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These boxes are not cheap in quality, which is what matters to the OP. They have a far greater dynamic range and frequency response than the source, are very well made, and sound great.
Please detail your experience with these items, as I have peers who have both, and they have a long list of very satisfied clients (many referred by us) who wished vinyl recording transfered to digital.
In addition I have often praised the "combo boxes" such as the Presonus Firebox, which I personally own and love.
Your buddy Miro took a nice little time out, maybe you should consider the same. Yours is not the word of the audio Gods.
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#1869673 - 01/09/08 02:40 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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You've done your appeal to authority gag on plenty of other topics, and gotten away with it.
Not this time.
Your "peers" in this industry wouldn't waste their time making $8-10/hour xferring vinyl to CD, because there's not a soul on the planet that would pay more than that - buying the CD is cheaper.
Unless, of course, your "peers" (and by extension, yourself) aren't really all that high up in the studio food chain, and are desperate to fill billable hours with zero-money-making projects like this.
Nope, not gonna let you pull that "friends in high places" junk.
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#1869768 - 01/09/08 05:16 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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miroslav
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Hey audiorulez...don't drag me into this.
That's like the 3rd time now you referenced me in a thread discussion that I had no part of.
What's the matter...do you miss me that much?
The only time I took off around here was time off from YOU and your personal attacks...otherwise; I'm posting as much as ever.
You are one of the rudest and most condescending posters on this forum.
You manage to find some way to attack and annoy someone in almost every thread you post on. Your personal insults follow you from thread to thread.
Oh...and Grif is right...enough already with the "friends in high places”….”industry pros”….and “my clients" that you always toss out in every thread to try and prove you are right, and everyone else is wrong.
Those are just empty references to nameless people….
Most industry pros gladly hang out their shingles and client rosters.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1869863 - 01/09/08 08:46 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Jim Quinn
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audiorulez...please check your PMs before making any posts...
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#1869971 - 01/10/08 06:08 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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Your "peers" in this industry wouldn't waste their time making $8-10/hour xferring vinyl to CD, because there's not a soul on the planet that would pay more than that - buying the CD is cheaper.
Pretty tough purchasing a recording that was never transfered to digital or simply no longer available in any format. Many of the clients are those who recorded in years past to vinyl. Some do not have the original master tapes or they are in poor condition. Several are those who had recordings of their fathers and grandfathers made back in WWii, when it was quite popular to be able to go into the local drugstore and make a quick record to send home to family and loved ones. They want to preserve these memories.
So, as you can see, there are many examples of why someone would pay good money to do this sort of transfer, including the OP.
AFA the "Those are just empty references to nameless people…." Miro, we respect our clients privacy, and have no need to post their particulars here. If you and others choose to treat your clients differently that is your choice. Here we have very strict policies on how our clients and professional names are used, and follow them to the letter.
Jim, I assume this same warning you PM'd to me has gone to Griffinator and Miroslav. If not I suggest you examine their mannerisms on your forum, which IMHO is one of the major factors why it is so lightly populated. Had Grif not been so insistent that he was right (with no proof other than his spoutings) we would not be at this impasse.
If it has not, then I am saddened that this forum has simply become the Jim Quinn club. I hope your level of professionalism is higher than that. This used to be a great forum where anyone could come for advise or to share a trick or trade without judgement, and I believe it could be that again.
I hope that in the future we can all become more open minded about how we approach subjects. This is a perfect example of the sort of pissing contests that get started here. Someone poses a question about a particular device. A recommendation that the poster go a certain direction is given, and alternatives are bashed uniformly.
A rebuttal is given on the alternative, citing experience with them, and the pissing contest begins with insults (from Grif: "Why, just because they do something that you don't care about (capturing vinyl to digital on the cheap)?" IMHO this remark was totally uncalled for.Grif, when did I say I didn't care about capturing vinyl to digital on the cheap? In fact I suggested devices of quality that would do exactly that. Grif had already made his point, yet failed to show any experience with these units, whereas I did. It then further continues with Grif saying "You've done your appeal to authority gag on plenty of other topics, and gotten away with it." I never made any "appeal to authority" from this post and never said anything about it. I said "Your buddy Miro took a nice little time out, maybe you should consider the same. Yours is not the word of the audio Gods." A bit harsh perhaps, but to the point, which meaning was if you are only going to sling unsupported insults, perhaps you should consider not posting. Maybe if I had said that instead it would have softened the blow, however I doubt it.
Miro, I will apologize for dragging you into this. I was using you as an example of someone who was big enough to take a timeout (in whatever way you chose) to help restore comradeship. I admire you for that. However IMHO you only fueled Grif's fire with your condescending remarks.
Thus we are now here. Why? IMHO because Grif couldn't manage to let of of the fact that his is not the only opinion on this subject. He cited no real world usage of these products, in fact nothing to back up his opinion, yet expects, and somewhat demands the OP and anyone reading believe his word is law because he says so.
Is this really what this forum has become? Is this not a place where anyone, novice to veteran pro can come to share ideas, ask questions (no matter how newbie they might be) without ridicule and insults? If it is, I am saddened, as I can think of no worthy reason why it should be this way.
I suggest that we ALL (including you, Jim) take some time and examine our motives for being here, and remember where we all came from, that we were all newbies once, and that one never stops learning.
I wish you all the best in the new year. Lets start it off right.
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#1869976 - 01/10/08 06:23 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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By all means, if you're transferring a lo-fi recording off a 78 made in 1942, then sure, get one of these boxes.
If you're interested in preserving a high-fidelity recording that's out of print, you need to make a better investment both in preamp and in ADC - and you won't get that in a one-box option for $250. High-quality phono preamps that are suitable for preserving out of print gems from the 60's and 70's like the old (and virtually unavailable) Blue Note jazz catalogs will set you back $500 and up, and appropriate 2-channel ADC's will cost you similar money.
Quality of original signal is of course paramount to this whole discussion. Again, if the source record is pretty much crap fidelity, then I have no argument with AR's assessment.
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#1870102 - 01/10/08 10:12 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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Given the dynamic range and frequency response of the boxes I have recommended far exceed that of any vinyl recording, I humbly dissagree.
NAD in particular is a highly respected company in their field that make a superb product for this application.
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#1870208 - 01/10/08 11:46 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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OK, this is the last statement I'll make on this thread, and then it's up to you to believe what you wish to believe.
Given the dynamic range and frequency response of the boxes I have recommended far exceed that of any vinyl recording
Great. So let's take a look at an A/D/A converter, shall we?
nverter A:
24 bit A/D, 64x oversampling
Dynamic Range (A-D) 103dB (D-A) 100dB
Frequency response: 10Hz-21Khz @ 48Khz sample rate
Well, its specs exceed that of any front-end recording equipment you're likely to plug into it, so it must be good, right?
NAD is a (somewhat, if you speak with audio enthusiasts) highly respected company in their field.
Unfortunately, their field is not the field of phono preamplifiers, nor is it the field of USB connections, nor A/D converters. Their field is the field of consumer audio amplifiers - specifically multichannel and stereo amplifiers for hi-fi and surround systems.
BTW - that A/D/A for which I listed specs? A Behringer Ultragain 8-channel.
Edited by Griffinator (01/10/08 11:47 AM)
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#1870224 - 01/10/08 12:04 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
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Miro, I will apologize for dragging you into this. I was using you as an example of someone who was big enough to take a timeout (in whatever way you chose) to help restore comradeship. I admire you for that. However IMHO you only fueled Grif's fire with your condescending remarks.
Maybe it did refuel things...but you kinda' brought it on yourself.
You know...Grif, you, a few others and I are the only people that regularly hang out and post in the PS forum. And by now I think we know each other well enough that we don't need to ALWAYS drag every thread down into the dirt trying to outpost each other.
You have your ways...Grif has his...I have mine....etc....let's just go with that. 
Feel free to disagree a couple of times…and we can each disagree a couple of times...and then let's leave it there...
…otherwise, we all come off like a bunch of little kids in the schoolyard doing the classic Yes it is! ... No it isn't! routine…
...and that gets us NOWHERE!
My goal is NOT to fight with you (or anyone)...but, we all need to give each other a little room...AND...a little respect AFA audio knowledge/experience is concerned.
I think that is the only way we can remain at least civilized, if not friendly towards each other....OK?
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#1870405 - 01/10/08 04:30 PM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: miroslav]
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audiorulez
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Given the incredibly poor reputation Behringer has for quality, reliability etc., I personally would have chosen a different example, however, even those specs are better than any turntable/vinyl source. Thus this only reinforces my point, that these boxes are of very good quality for what the OP is wishing to do, since even the worst (as you have so wonderfully shown by your Behringer example) converters have far better specs than the source can ever possibly feed it.
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#1870576 - 01/11/08 04:26 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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I think you missed the point a bit. The example (an 8-channel A-D-A of the poorest quality) has sufficient specifications to handle 95% of the front-end recording gear on the market. Doesn't mean it sounds good, or is a good substitute for a good rack of preamps and a good A/D converter.
What I'm trying to say here is that specifications lie. There's not a vinyl enthusiast out there who would recommend a NAD TT preamp for general use, never mind mission critical applications, over a better box from Jolida, Thorens, or any number of other companies who specialize in those applications.
By the same token, there's not a recording professional out there who would recommend that Behringer A/D/A as a digital front-end in mission critical applications over offerings from Lucid, Apogee, and other companies who specialize in that application!
Just like there's more to the quality of an ADC than the specifications, there's more to the quality of a phono preamp than specifications. That's all I'm saying, and why I'd strongly recommend going separate with your pre and ADC when tracking vinyl to digital.
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#1870625 - 01/11/08 06:05 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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So the fact that the destination dynamic and frequency range far exceeds the source is moot you say?
In another members words, "whatever".
OP you will do fine with either of the recommended boxes. However a simple solution is at hand. Obtain one and see for yourself.
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#1870632 - 01/11/08 06:22 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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Griffinator
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That's not what I said at all. I'm saying there's more to it than dynamic and frequency range specifications. You know just as well as I do that the SQ of a piece of audio equipment is far more than just its dynamic and frequency range specifications - otherwise why would anyone buy a Benchmark DAC1 at $500 per channel when a PreSonus Digimax has equivalent frequency and dynamic range?
(edit)
And if the OP wishes to intelligently evaluate the situation, he'd be better served by not only picking up one of the boxes you listed, but also picking up a nice phono pre by one of the companies I mentioned along with a Lucid, Benchmark, or Apogee 2-channel ADC, and compare the difference in capture quality.
Edited by Griffinator (01/11/08 06:27 AM)
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#1870637 - 01/11/08 06:29 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
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Yes OP by all means do get the far more expensive alternative and see if there is an audible difference between the two and the source.
Are we done now?
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#1876839 - 01/21/08 07:36 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: audiorulez]
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sergiobklyn
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Thanks for the reply audiorulez.
My friend is using a Shure V15VxMR cartridge. The manual gives a recommended load of 47 kΩ ohms in parallel with 250 pF. He was using a Swissonic USB Studio D device with adustable input capacitance of 40pF and 250pF. The NAD PP-3 has an Input impedance of 47kohms + 200pF.
Do you think that the 200pF will make a big difference?
Thanks again,
Sergio
p.s. Is the ART USB Phono Plus V2 any good? See: http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?type=90&cat=13&id=128
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#1876847 - 01/21/08 07:56 AM
Re: Phono Preamp
[Re: sergiobklyn]
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audiorulez
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250pF is in the 47K-200pF range.
Not familiar with the ART.
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