#1790229 - 08/02/07 08:48 AM
High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
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enthusiast
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Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 1
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G'day all!
Hope this is the right forum lounge to post this in...
We have a new, small church which has recently started here and have a nice little band and some old, borrowed sound gear (big old desk and speakers).
However, we've now got our own budget to buy a whole new set up, and I've been asked to source the gear! Basically the gear needs to be fairly portable for ease of setting up, but still give a high quality sound. It will be used in a medium sized hall for an audience of 50-100 people.
The band will need microphones for 4 vocalists, and also has a keyboard, acoustic and bass guitars (they have their own amp). Keyboard should come through sound desk.
I've been doing a lot of reading and talking to a few people, and have come up with a few different options for the components, but need some more specific advice from people who know or use the equipment elsewhere!
Budget is AU$4,000 - 5,000 for the following:
1 x Mackie DFX12 12 channel mixer OR 1 x Yamaha MG16/6FX 16 channel mixer
2 x powered speakers (Mackie SRM450 OR JBL EON15 G2 OR Yamaha MSR400)
2 x speaker stands
1 or 2 x powered foldback speakers (these can be any brand - any suggestions for cheaper ones which may be suitable - and is one enough or is it good to use 2?)
5 x quality mics (any suggestions for the best vocal mic @ $50-100 ea?)
1 x UHF wireless lapel mic (any suggestions for a quality, entry-level kit would be great!)
Microphone stands and leads
Multicore - another option
This won't be an installed system, and will be transported around to different places for band practices etc. That's why I thought we'd go for a smaller, lightweight desk with powered speakers. Also, thought the multicore would be good so we can have the desk at the back and run one main cable to the front and connect all mic leads to that down there... and with speakers like the JBL's, we can even use them by themselves for a small practice, with the built in mixer.
I'd particularly like to here your thoughts on the different options I've listed in terms of mixers and speakers. Thanks for any advice and/or suggestions!
Kind regards,
Ben
QLD, Australia
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#1790530 - 08/02/07 07:07 PM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: enthusiast]
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paully
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/25/04
Posts: 1062
Loc: Northern New Jersey
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Hey Ben,
Not much to suggest here, but if you're mixing from the rear of the house you're also going to need a snake. The best bang for the buck is probably Carvin. Take a look at their website http://www.carvin.com for speakers, amps, powered monitors, etc.
Best, Paul
_________________________
WUDAYAKNOW.. For the first time in my life, I'm wrong again!!
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#1791632 - 08/05/07 03:51 PM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: paully]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7343
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Here's the problem.... there is no way that you should be doing this job. I'm not trying to be insulting or condecending, but if you have to ask these questions, you're the wrong guy. Seek an audio installation specialist, hire him as a consultant, and don't use anyone who could get the bid. He will create a bid book, which you will let out for bid to the competent installers in your area.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1791669 - 08/05/07 07:11 PM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9880
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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What Bill said.
You're in way over your head here.
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#1793310 - 08/09/07 06:34 AM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: Griffinator]
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audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 542
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While I agree an pro audio consultant would be the best route, with a limited budget of only $4-5000AU (equal to about $3-4000USD), a true desing professional would eat up a huge portion of that.
Sounds like you're on the right track with what you've chosen. Don't be afraid to buy used either, Craigslist often has used 57's and 58's for less than 1/2 the new cost that sound fine for instance.
Instead of monitors, I'd suggest perhaps a good headphone amp and some ear buds. There are quite a few low cost options out there, and they can significantly improve the quality of your sound, especially in this type of venue. If everyone is hardwired, it's about the same cost. Consider consoles that can do 4 pre fader mixes, giving you 4 monitor mixes, 1-2 for the singers, and 2 more for the band. Acoustic guitar, bass and keys all go direct, so the only source of amplified sound is the Mackie speakers, which btw are excellent.
Everyone will hear much better than if using traditional monitors, and the absence of them will greatly improve the overall sound, since there will be no other source except your mains, lessening the reflections in what are traditionally very poor acoustic environments in churches.
IMHO you are not in way over your head for the simple system you're trying to put together. Forums like this are perfect for those with low budgets to get advise on what's out there in their budget and the best bang for the buck.
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#1793321 - 08/09/07 07:00 AM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: audiorulez]
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7343
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And here is the problem with specing a system over the internet, when the fellow asking the question is not experienced.
1. Does the gear suggested present the right answer to the problem? we don't know.
2. Suggested changes in system... are they appropriate and/or practical? Great example from above, the suggestion of in-ear monitoring: "Everyone will hear much better ..." Possibly. I hope your insurance is paid up. Are the people operating this system capable and qualified to run an in-ear setup? Who pays for the subsequent hearing damage claims? The cost verses traditional monitoring is higher, if done properly. Who maintains and sanitizes the ear buds? Every/any change has its repercussions.
In my opinion the poster is in over his head, based upon things included and excluded from his original post. It certainly is exciting to get the nod to be the guy to build a new system. When I worked at CB,I we made a lot of money off of places that used a guy in a band to spec their gear from the local music store. The sad part was that, had they come to us originally, they would not have wasted so much money, time, and effort. And there is also the down-side that a lot of places face... they blow their wad on a system and they are stuck with it for the next 20 years, win, lose, or draw. So... again, in my opinion, ... anyone contemplating a long term capital expenditure should seek professional assistance. One would not build a house from a small knowlege of living in one and the happenstance of the close proximity of a local Home Depot; but this point is probably lost on anyone whos enthusiasm over-rides their good sense. A knowlegable person can save money when buying parts for most any endeavor. A novice is not likely to fare so well.
Good luck.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#1793330 - 08/09/07 07:19 AM
Re: High quality, easy PA setup needed for small church
[Re: Bill@Welcome Home Studios]
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audiorulez
Gold Member
Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 542
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It's a small PA for 100 person room, so yes the suggested gear does fit the situation.
Yes the suggested changes are appropriate, IEM's are particularly useful in such venues, and are as simple or simpler to operate even for a novice than tgraditional wedges.
It's not rocket science dude. We're not building a house here, nor are we setting up for Van Halen, just a little reinforcement of the local church band for 100 followers.
I helped a local church similiar to this last year, they got a pair of Mackie SRM450 powered speakers, a pair of Samson CO2's, and a 16 ch mackie VLZ console, 6 used SM58's and a Rane HC-6 headphone amp off Craigslist, and some Sennheiser ear buds. The entire package cost them under $3000, and they love it. They got no more advice from me than they could get here, and put the entire thing together themselves. No one is what could be considered an experienced audio professional, but, since it's not rocket science, you don't need to be. They ave vocals on a mix of ears, drums (one overhead for IEMs only) and bass direct sharing a mix and acoustic guitar (mic'd with the other CO2) and keys direct sharing the 4th mix.
They asked me to come to a service to check out how it sounded, and it was great. I could hear everything fine, and it was not overwhelming. Like I said, they did this all on their own.
Don't be afraid or intimidated to do your own research, ask advice and make your own decisions.
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