#1784888 - 07/21/07 08:37 AM
PA system $700 range
|
tspade3
Member
Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 10
|
Offline
|
|
Two of my kids are in a band and need to upgrade. I only have about $700-$1000 to spend on a PA to get the singer's vocals out over the band. At this point we are not mic'ing the drums, the guitar is on a Twin Reverb and the bass is a 200W. We've talked to some local musician's but need more feedback. Thanks
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1785021 - 07/21/07 05:30 PM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: tspade3]
|
Jeff Klopmeyer
10k Club
Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 16802
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
So, the ONLY thing you need the PA for is the lead singer's vocals to be amplified? My question is, exactly how many sources will you be running through the PA? Let me know, and I'll see if I can recommend something.
Also: you already have the vocalist's mic, correct?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1785319 - 07/22/07 01:36 PM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
$1000 is just barely adequate for a vocals-only PA, and that's buying used. Less will get you something only useful for a bingo hall.
You need the following in order to have a functioning PA system that will "get the singer over the band":
1) At least one pair of Mains - so the audience can hear the singer. One speaker won't get this done, you must have two.
2) At least one Monitor - so the singer can hear himself. Preferably two, so the singer doesn't create feedback problems by having to stand directly in front of the monitor to hear himself.
3) At least one power amplifier. You'll need something big and beefy to handle all three (or four) speakers by itself - two amps would work better. Insufficient amplification will just result in blowing up speakers, then you're out more money.
4) A mixer. Doesn't have to be big, for now, but bear in mind that if you go tiny now, you'll be replacing it when they start playing in clubs, because they'll need to mic more than just the singer at that point.
Less than a grand new? Well....
Cheap mixer: Yamaha MG10/2C: $130
Inexpensive mains: Yamaha BR10: $378 (pair)
Inexpensive (single) monitor: Yamaha BR12M: $226
Inexpensive (single) power amp: Samson SX1800: $389
Total: $1123 - figure another $150 in cables (20/30/40 foot speaker cables ain't cheap)
Note: There are cheaper options than what I'm listing here, but specs are misleading, and those cheaper options will turn out to be a waste because they don't deliver what you expect them to. I learned this lesson the hard way back when I fronted a couple bands and they left the PA expense all on me.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1785484 - 07/22/07 10:44 PM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
|
tspade3
Member
Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 10
|
|
Offline
|
|
thanks for the responses. Yes, right now the only thing we'd like to mic is the kid's vocals. They've got mics and cords from their present crappy PA. The guitarist is on a twin reverb and the bass is a 200w Ampeg. they balance their vol to a pretty hard hitting un-mic'd drummer. So I guess explained like that, the drummer sets the level. They are young, but passionate and getting better. the write and play all their own stuff, a funk-rock mix and play parties, small VFW type rooms, they have a battle of the bands at an outdoor bandshell coming up and another in a half-closed school gym. They are only 14, so a few years away from the clubs.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1785691 - 07/23/07 12:10 PM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: tspade3]
|
Jeff Klopmeyer
10k Club
Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 16802
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Read Griff's post above.
The other thing I can recommend (and this seems lame, but check it out anyway) is to go to musiciansfriend.com or sweetwater.com or the like, and do a search for PA Packages. BUT BEFORE YOU BUY, come back here and see what we think about the system that looks interesting to you.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786044 - 07/24/07 08:19 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: tspade3]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
None of those systems addresses the problem of stage monitoring. Furthermore, they all use combo heads, which are notoriously under-powered for their intended applications.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786047 - 07/24/07 08:21 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: tspade3]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
They've got mics and cords from their present crappy PA.
Explain:
What is their "present crappy PA" comprised of - if you can't swing all the parts now, there may be some parts you can integrate from the old system temporarily (mains, in particular).
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786117 - 07/24/07 10:10 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Griffinator]
|
tspade3
Member
Registered: 07/21/07
Posts: 10
|
|
Offline
|
|
They've got mics and cords from their present crappy PA. Explain: What is their "present crappy PA" comprised of - if you can't swing all the parts now, there may be some parts you can integrate from the old system temporarily (mains, in particular).
4ch Kustom KPM 4080 Powered Mixer, 80 watt MOSFET, 2) Kustom speakers KSC10 60W RMS 120W/Music
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786155 - 07/24/07 11:11 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: tspade3]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Ouch. NM then...
Again, this is the advantage of going used, particularly with the power amp.
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786156 - 07/24/07 11:14 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Griffinator]
|
Griffinator
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9848
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
BTW - filling a school gymnasium requires a LOT more beef than filling a club. Keep that in mind.
Edited by Griffinator (07/24/07 11:15 AM)
_________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1786701 - 07/25/07 11:08 AM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Griffinator]
|
Jeff Klopmeyer
10k Club
Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 16802
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
It is essential that you have some kind of monitoring solution for the singer. Otherwise, he will not be able to hear himself at all. I do understand you're looking at a tight budget, but with no monitor, you won't want to hear what's going to come out of the PA.
Try and find a system that includes at least one stage monitor. In case you're unfamiliar, these are the wedge-shaped speakers you see pointed toward the band, usually at the front of the stage.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#1886772 - 02/06/08 10:37 PM
Re: PA system $700 range
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
|
Soundcrafter
Gold Member
Registered: 12/19/01
Posts: 611
Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
|
|
Offline
|
|
You can address the feedback issue of using only one monitor by selecting the right vocal mic for the job, and avoid the added cost of a second monitor wedge. Pretty much the standard vocal mic that takes a beating and still sounds good (though there are others) is the Shure SM58 or Beta 58. The basic difference in the two is the pickup pattern (how the mic "hears" around itself). If you find the singer likes it better with the wedge directly in front of them, the SM58 would be better, as it rejects sound well that is directly behind it. If on the other hand your singer would prefer the wedge off to the side of them, say their 2 o'clock or 10 o'clock, then the Beta 58 would work out better, since it picks up a bit more from the direct rear and less from the outer sides. Looking for used gear you should be able to find some decent stuff close to the budget. Bearing in mind I'm a late replier here, I'll bet you've found a system already, but I hope the microphone/monitor tips help. For reference, the SM58 has what's called a cardioid pickup pattern, whereas the Beta 58 has a hyper-cardioid pickup pattern. Check out your singer's vocal mic and see if you can find out its pattern, then you can determine how best to position their monitor.
Here's a link to a page with good illustrations and explanations of microphone polar patterns. Sometimes mics just have a diagram of their pattern on them, so this can help you identify it.
http://www.microphonemadness.com/faq.htm
Cheers,
Ben
_________________________
"If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit. Unless you are a table."
-Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: Jeff Klopmeyer
|
|
|
