#1783327 - 07/17/07 10:04 PM
Lights !!
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Tom Capasso
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Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 7392
Loc: east meadow,NY,UNITED STATES
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I searched but didn't see anything on buying lights.
Stonefly is looking at buying some lights. We're too big to get very fancy (no room!), but we haven't done anything like this before. One of our guitarists and I are doing the buying, and he ordered a package of 4 PAR 56 lights. They were cheap, and damaged, and are going back. He said they seemed too bright, and I was wondering if PAR 38s were enough. Also, I was thinking about finding some type of "add-on" bar that could be attached to the PA tripods and extend up to light the band. I could put two lights on each side that way.
Any words of wisdom are welcome.
Thanks
Tom
_________________________
www.stoneflyrocks.com Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt
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#1783558 - 07/18/07 12:02 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Tom Capasso]
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jay da cop
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 537
Loc: Waldoboro, Maine
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The smaller the light the closer it needs to be, unless you are going for the ambient thing. 56's are good from a distance, and hot as Hades. 64's are the worst, and that's why you see them "flying" from truss bars high above the stage, nearly in the atmosphere. 38s are good, especially if they are aimed at each station. Of course, this goes out the window if everyone is running around like Steven Tyler with his pants on fire. You could always get bunches of them and cover the stage.
My suggestion is to keep them away from the PA. And don't run them from the same power if possible. The dimmer packs will wreak havoc on the sound (really bad hum). If there is no other way, then keep the system small, and try not to change scenes too often, and forget the chases or dimming up/down while playing. This will make your sound "unforgettable", but your band will become a memory. BTDT, have the T-shirt.
There are a lot of trees and trusses to hang stuff from, and there are add-on bars for all the above. Keep in mind that the more lights you have the more dimmer packs you need, and these are not cheap. Don't forget a light controller board. MIDI sequencing is always an alternative (BTDT also, and it works great. Program change messages change scenes. This can be run from a computer sequencer, a standalone sequencer such as the Roland MC series or old Alesis MMT8, or from a native sequencer on a workstation. I used the one on my Ensoniq SQ80 for several years).
My $0.02.
Enjoy.
Jay
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#1783577 - 07/18/07 12:42 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: jay da cop]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 16762
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
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Great advice from Jay.
I want to stress one thing he said: keep your lights, if at all possible, on a different circuit than your audio electrical stuff (particularly your PA). They are buzz magnets.
An alternative to an automated controller board is a controller that reacts to sound input. We'd often link ours to a particular source like the kick drum, and have color changes splashing the back wall behind the drummer with each quarter note. No, not on every song.
Last: as a performer, playing with lights right in your face for several hours makes the gig 10x more fatiguing. There's a reason why people are interrogated with bright lights in their face. You'll be blind and burning hot. Keep them at a reasonable distance and you'll be happier.
Anyone with professional lighting experience is welcome to chip in here!
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#1783700 - 07/18/07 04:11 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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Tom Capasso
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/30/01
Posts: 7392
Loc: east meadow,NY,UNITED STATES
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Thanks for the wisdom thus far.
Jay, your comments about the "par" size are very helpful. We don't have the stage or "distance" at our gigs for strong lights, so the 38's seem about right. We don't move much because there are too many of us (7).
Being a large band playing small places, we haven't had the luxury of knowing what circuits our outlets are on. I understand that lights (the dimmer boxes specifically) can be a big hum issue. We'll do the best we can to isolate, but we've been happy that we've not yet blown a breaker just with the band (our equipment isn't that big, but the places have been small).
We had a gig a few weeks ago where we borrowed some lights - check the site in my signature, pics, and click the Vinage 7/7/7 set if that helps.
I look forward to more comments!
Tom
_________________________
www.stoneflyrocks.com Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt
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#1784366 - 07/20/07 03:40 AM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Tom Capasso]
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jay da cop
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 537
Loc: Waldoboro, Maine
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Jeff, I completely spaced the "in your face" thing with the lights. Too true. When we were running lights overhead, they were exactly that - overhead above every stationary point (drums, keys, amps, pedeal boards, etc) so the guys could see what they needed too without being "Blinded by the light". We used different colors for each station - mine was blue. Our sound man controlled the lights when he could, and could "solo" each player when appropriate either by turning everyone else off or dimming the others. Of course, our guitarist had 3 on his area for mobility and for effect (different colors for different moods - I am certain you guys know what I mean). The drummer had 2 behind him at angles on the floor aimed across the kit toward the front of the stage. That was cool.
Jay
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#1788282 - 07/28/07 07:41 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: jay da cop]
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Kramer Ferrington III.
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Registered: 05/12/05
Posts: 9383
Loc: Wellington, NZ
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Well, lights being "too bright" is not a major problem, you can probably buy (or get someone to make) a dimmer for you.
As long as you have a dimmer, it's better for the lights to be strong, because then you have more options for positioning, without the lights getting all washed out because they are too far away from the musicians.
For small and extra cheap, you can even get some decent results with ordinary 200W garden floodlights. You can stick them inside old paint cans so you can have a coloured gel in front of them. Not bad if you position them on the floor pointing upward around the musicians.
As far as drumkits go, my favourite trick is to have one under the snare (strobes are nice) for rolls and snare fills, and one pointing inside the kick drum. That's great for when a song starts with just a KD intro: total darkness and this... light pulsing inside the drum.
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#1788331 - 07/28/07 11:41 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Kramer Ferrington III.]
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SpaceNorman
Senior Member
Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 312
Loc: Michigan
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If I was in the market for lights today for small club scene today - I'd be looking long and hard at the new LED lighting products.
I bought lights 3 years ago - four 1500 watt DMX controlled stage wash units (each unit has (3) 500 watt halogen bulbs behind diachromic lenses (1 red - 1 blue - 1 green). While they look great - there are alot of nights we don't use them because either there's not enough power (it takes 1 30 amp circuit to run 2 fixtures - so 2 circuits for lights alone!) - or because the stage area is too small to put the lights up far enough away to prevent us spontaneously combusting because of the heat.
The LED lights require very little power - and put out very little heat. If I was looking for small club lights - LED lights look like they'd be perfect!!!!
_________________________
The SpaceNorman 
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#1795878 - 08/14/07 11:27 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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jay da cop
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Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 537
Loc: Waldoboro, Maine
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How is the dimming capability on the LEDs? I know they are less power draw (our new light bars for the cruisers are LED, less power, more battery savings), but I am not sure about how well LEDs will dim. It could be a matter of activating fewer actual elements (individual LEDs within the unit), I just don't know.
Jay
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#1796024 - 08/15/07 09:04 AM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: jay da cop]
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Registered: 10/13/00
Posts: 16762
Loc: Redondo Beach,CA,UNITED STATES
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The LEDs sound great. I love the idea of eliminating the massive heat factor and power drain. Two questions:
1. Are they really bright enough?
2. Are they any more likely to cause noise interference than standard lights?
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#1797418 - 08/18/07 07:20 AM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Jeff Klopmeyer]
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SpaceNorman
Senior Member
Registered: 12/07/06
Posts: 312
Loc: Michigan
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Jeff,
I've been looking at the LED fixtures lately - and caught an act the other day that was using a few of them. The noise / interference thing should be a none issue. Assuming that whatever you use UL listed devices there there be no problem. The fact that they draw a tiny fraction of the power that incandecent or halogen fixtures draw actually lessens the noise factor.
Your question about brightness is a subjective one. Personally, fixture for fixture - I don't think they are as bright as conventional lighting. If you're playing "showcase" clubs (i.e., somewhere designed to accomodate real light shows - i.e., lots of power, high ceilings, space around the stage, etc.) - conventional lighting beat LEDs hands down.
However, if you're like alot of us playing the "band on Saturday, tiny stage in the corner" sort of venues with low ceilings, little clearance around the band and limited power - an LED show is perfect. In those situations - it's very common to pare a great light show down to a couple of fixtures because of space, heat and/or power constraints. In the tiny stage/little clearance/limited power world - you can use a relatively robust LED lightshow that "fits" the room - all from power drawn from a single extension cord - and without feeling like your 5 feet from the sun. If you're a weekend warrior playing tiny clubs it looks like the way to go to me!
_________________________
The SpaceNorman
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#1807069 - 09/08/07 12:27 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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Paul K
Gold Member
Registered: 05/16/06
Posts: 961
Loc: Ithaca, NY
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We've got two of something that looks like this:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--CHVCH155
but it's older, not sound activated, and mounts on a pole. It's big enough for the "band on Saturday, tiny stage in the corner", easy to set up, not hot, and we can turn off one, two, or three of the builbs as needed. Sometimes we only set up one of them. It' not a disco stage show, but keeps us out of the dark and fits into a suitcase. As with P.A.'s, I find that stages that need a bigger production most often come with their own lighting(...but not always....your expierience may differ....) I've yet to see the LED fixtures tha SpaceNorman describes, but would think that they'd be a perfect combination of "less is more", especially if you do the occasional outdoor gig with limited power. And I'd expect the LED's to be less prone to breakage from the inadvertant experiments with gravity than conventional builbs.
Peace
Paul K
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#1807195 - 09/08/07 08:31 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: Paul K]
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Griffinator
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Registered: 03/28/02
Posts: 9354
Loc: Lynchburg, VA, USA
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As cheap as the LED fixtures are, it's foolish not to try them out. After the Allen and Heath we're eyeballing to replace our venerable old Sunn mixer, this'll be next on our list.
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#1834617 - 11/02/07 02:55 PM
Re: Lights !!
[Re: SpaceNorman]
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scafeets
Member
Registered: 04/01/05
Posts: 3
Loc: North Carolina
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We just upgraded our lights and added two PAR 64 LED fixtures.
LEDs are the way to go for low power consumption and low heat.
To get an idea of how much light an LED is putting out, check the size (10mm LEDs are large and bright) and number of LEDs in the can. We bought these: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150174641220&ssPageName=STRK:MEAFB:IT
after check out a number of suppliers.
Remember that LEDs only turn on and off (don't dim) so getting a DMX controlled can with a lot of LEDs in it is the only way to make it dim (it turns off a specified number of LEDs sequentially.)
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